D fife

Irish Flute
1

At the marvelous NE whistle gathering, organized by slowair,
walt sweet played for me one of his new D fifes.
He played it marvelously, in fact. But I didn’t
hear it for as long as I would have liked.

Well, I wonder how this compares with a soprano D
whistle. It was certainly loud, though I suppose one
could play it softly, and the tone was impressive.

Well, do these serve as whistles? Do they sound
like whistles or even better? Because these things
cost about 105, I think, maybe 110, and could
replace high end whistles in our stables at a lower
price.

Anyone play both?

2

I don’t have any fifes in D right now, but I’ve had two in the past. They sound similar to a whistle, but a whistle simply sounds like itself.

A fife in D can be piercingly loud, yet with a good embouchure (think mouthful of alum small opening) they can be played rather quietly.

My fondest memory of fife playing was sitting on a corner about 1/4 block from the County courthouse, during lunch hour with lots of street traffic, and hearing a thumping noise and looking up and seeing two uniform police officers and a judge in robes pounding on the window and pointing down at me…for some reason they stopped when I walked away.

Eric

3

They sound similar to a whistle, but a whistle simply sounds like itself.

Thank you, yet this statement is cryptic. Is there something
a whistle does that a fife can’t do, or that a whistle does better,
supposing one has a good embouchure and can
play the fife softly?

Anybody? I mean how much could a grenadilla
d fife cost? Sell all my d whistles, spend the
profits on booze!

4

ROTFL! :laughing:

5

Jim - while I enjoy being cryptic, I didn’t mean to be.

Let me think of how best to explain what I mean…I think it’s that the whistle has inherent limitations that lead a whistle to sound very similar no matter who plays that particlular whistle. You can get louder and softer with that whistle, but you can’t make it reedy or do what you can with a flute…which is a plus for the fife. Whistles also have that whistlish pop and chiff that seems somehow different, to me at least, than any fife can sound like.

One thing a fife can’t ever do is to give you a break when your lips are too tired to make the flute sound good, whereas a whistle is great for that.

Eric

6

I played the fife for years and it is definitly NOT a parlor instrument. The lower octave is weak and most tunes are played in the second and third octaves. I’ve only seen them in three keys, D, C and A with A being rare. Fifes can go from $100.00 to over $300.00 depending on who makes them and the kind of wood used.

Not to be “cryptic” but, a fife is a fife and a whistle is a whistle.

BillG

7

I’ve got a CD of Irish tunes played completely on fife (probably should call it a piccolo). They sound nice but harsher in many ways than most whistles.

I could be wrong but I believe a high D piccolo should be, or ususally is, designed to allow playing with a good strong tone in the first and second octaves, while a fife is probably geared more towards the 2nd and 3rd octave playing.

-Brett

8

Thanks to all. I do get the differnce, I think.

I’m afraid I used confusing nomenclature.

The flute Sweet played brilliantly was a D instrument
with a strong first and second octace. Perhaps it
is not a fife, but a soprano D flute or a piccolo.

9

Yes, I have both a fife and a piccolo (AKA folk fife). The Sweet 2-piece piccolo can be played beautifully in the first two octaves, and softly (it takes a good embouchure). If you are worried about volume, my apple wood seems to be nice and soft spoken. It has a conical bore and, for me, it is difficult to hit the third octave (partly because it is in D and partly because I need a better embouchure).

The cylindrical fife that I have (Peeler) plays in tune in the second and third and cannot be played easily “softly” in the third octave It’s bore is smaller than the Sweet. It is made for different playing, and (at least in my opinion.) it is nothing like the Sweet piccolo. also notice that Mr. Sweet makes both fifes and piccolos (or folk fifes). His fifes are for fifing and his folk fifes are for music.


Oh and yes the embouchure is different, but you don’t need the finger spread and need much less breath.

PS I am a novice so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

10

It seems to me that the fife/piccolo debate can be thought of, in some ways, as the difference between a fiddle and a violin. It’s not so much what the instrument is as to what is played on it.
Also, a piccolo seems to be a small flute, generally played in the first and second octaves, whereas a fife is generally played in the second and third octave, and each of these instruments is designed appropriately to make its ‘good pair’ of octaves as in tune as possible. Many “fifes” do not have very nice first octaves and I daresay many “piccolos” do not have very nice third octaves, as they are designed for two good ones, not necessarily three.

Of course, there are exceptions, like my Healy fife, which plays wonderfully in tune over 3 full octaves (though I can’t play over the high b), but most fifes do not play well in tune over the first octave.

Disclaimer: All the above is my humble inexperienced opinion. Those more in the know, please feel free to attempt to correct my misguided ways. :slight_smile:

11

I.D.10-t, I’ve never seen two such identical cross-posts! I think we may have been channeling each other across the country! :laughing:

12

I know! Right down to the novice disclaimer!
~~
One thing about the Healy Bb fife, (who makes also makes a “D Piccolo”) I find it more difficult to bring the F Nat in tune (second octave) with the XXX X0X fingering than the Sweet D piccolo. I have always wondered if it is because of the finger holes or the fact that the Healy has a rectangular embrochure and the Sweet has a round one.

I have always wondered if Healy makes a round embrochure for any of his instruments.

13

AFA the high F-nat, I use this fingering:
X 1/2 O O X O
Which is basically a high E, and venting the 2nd hole.
Do you find the high F# to be too sharp as well? I’ve found this fingering is more in tune:
XOX XXX instead of XOX XOO.

AFA the embouchure hole, it is my understanding that the “rounded rectangle” is one of Skip’s trademarks, and he doesn’t make round embouchure holes (someone please correct me if I’m wrong). One thing I’ve noticed about that is that it makes for a more consistent tone quality, since your embouchure must be very focused to get a decent sound out. This is something I’ve noticed as the difference between playing my Healy D flute and my Tipple (round embouchure).

14

With regard to the differences between a fife and a high flute, I agree with what has been said in that it depends on how the instrument is intended to be played. IMO, most high flutes are designed to play well in the first two octaves and begin to go out of tune in the third octave. For this reason high flutes and piccolos are great for playing regular folk tunes, such as ITRAD. On the other hand, fifes are designed to play best in the second and third octaves, as has already been stated. They are used for the marching military tunes of the fife repertoire

Comparing flutes and whistles is another matter. Here are some general comments that I wrote in my “Flute Buyer’s Guide”. The results of a volume level comparison test will follow in the next paragraph.

There is some misunderstanding about the difference between flutes and whistles. Whistles are a group of flute-like instruments where the sound is produced by blowing through a fixed fipple or blowhole. Examples of whistles are penny whistles, recorders, and Native American flutes. One advantage of whistles is that they are easy to play, in that a tone can be produced by merely blowing in the mouthpiece. A serious disadvantage of whistles is that it is difficult for the player to modify the quality of the tone produced, which is often an airy, thin tone. Of course, if the whistle maker is expert, the sound produced can be quite acceptable, but in my opinion, not as good as the flute tone (my personal bias). Flutes, on the other hand, are generally side-blown (transverse) instruments. With flutes there is no fixed fipple but only an opening where a column of air from the mouth is split, with part of the column of air diving down into the flute to set up a standing wave that produces the tone. The quality of the tone is controlled by the shape and angle of the blowhole and by the embouchure, the position of the player’s mouth and lips. Once this simple technique is mastered, flutes are capable of producing a wide range of nuances and subtleties of tone that are impossible with a whistle. The transverse flute allows the performer a greater potential in terms of sound dynamics and expressiveness.

Here are the results of a sound level test that I did today. I used a tripod-mounted digital sound meter set at max-hold and playing at a distance of 10 feet. For each note I played the loudest note that I was able to play. The readings are in decibels. The first instrument is a one-piece, pvc high D flute. The second reading is from a Clark Sweetone high D whistle. The third reading is from a Shaw, Freeman-tweaked high D whistle.

D5 (77.6, 75.0, 73.7), F5# (85.8, 77.8, 78.0), G5 (92.2, 75.1, 78.3), A5 (90.7, 81.0, 79.1);
D6 (94.3, 86.1, 87.0), F6# (95.4, 90.8, 89.0), A6 (95.1, 86.9, 89.3), D7 (100.1, 93.4, 96.0)

It is not difficult to see that the high flute is capable of producing a louder tone than either of the two tin whistles that were tested. However, just because the high flute can play loudly doesn’t mean that you have to blow it that way. They are also capable of being played softly, as well. If you are looking for a flute the will cut through the din of a loud session, a high flute is a good choice.

15

I was referring to the F-nat down an octave, but I will have to try your fingerings for F#

Strange because on his site it looked round

Confused me when I opened the box for the first time.
~~
I assume that this is the fife in question jim?

He has sound clips on his website, so maybe you can compare it to his whistles.
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/whistles.html
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/fifes.html

and this is what other people are probably talking about.
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/milfifes.html

The one on top has a conical bore and is tunable. You can also purchase a whistle head for it. When listening for the difference on other recordings the main thing that I notice is that the whistle keeps getting louder as the pitch gets higher. This is not always the case with the piccolo. I do not know about Chiff or other such things, and unless you play the whistle and the flute, I doubt that any one could tell the difference.

JessieK would probably be a great person to ask this question. I also remember a thread about the low whistle and the flute and their sound differences.

16

Ahh, that’s a different story.
Depending on the tune, I either use
XXX X 1/2 X (which is very hard to do on the fly)
or, I just half hole the F#:
XXX 1/2 OO

Neither of which is very reliable or clear sounding.

17

sweet folk fifes are made of diamondwood, rosewood,
and blackwood. The first is a new development,
laminated birch and resin, which walt s says is
just about ideal. The grenadilla costs nearly
twice as much.

Any opinions about whether it will sound better,
or even different, in a d fife than rosewood, say?

In FAQ on the sweet site, the answers suggest
that walt thinks the d folkfife beats whistles,
for reasons reminiscent of those doug t
has offered, by the way.

18

You posted while I was writing this, so some of it is redundant.

Ask the same question about the flute. You will have your answer.

All prices approximate and from the maker’s web site from the time of this post. Any miss prints are unintentional.

Sweet’s
Laminated wood $95 (price drop because of missmatched wood)
Rose wood $165
Blackwood $195

Healy
~$325 available in
African Blackwood (standard), Cooktown Ironwood, Olivewood, Amistad Purple Heart, Ebony, Pink Ivory (Ooo pretty!), Bois de Rose (Madagascan Rosewood), Bocote

Hammy Hamilton
Piccolo 400 Euro (~490USD) (Drool)

Tony dixon makes a Duo-Head High Whistle/Piccolo

£36.50-39.00
Don’t forget the baroque piccolos , they give you a key!

Booze and piccolos do not mix! Your embrochure will go out the window and you will reduced to playing the flute or whistle.

As for sound and wood, common thought is that the harder the wood the brighter (read louder) the sound. Nobody complains about not being able to hear the piccolo! (Think stars and stripes forever) The maker seems more important. Mr. Healy’s fifes seem louder than Mr. Sweet’s, and I have never tried a Dixon or Hammy piccolo.

I personally think that the ease of maintenance of diamondwood would sell me on it (the fact that it is also cheaper is a bonus)

PS. I am just an amateur. E-mailing Walt or Ralph Sweet would is the best way to find the answers about wood hardness and tone. They are nice, and will give you the information you need.

19

Well, I wonder how this compares with a soprano D
whistle. It was certainly loud, though I suppose one
could play it softly, and the tone was impressive.

Well, do these serve as whistles? Do they sound
like whistles or even better? Because these things
cost about 105, I think, maybe 110, and could
replace high end whistles in our stables at a lower
price.

Anyone play both?

Sheesh, trying to kick back and enjoy a pint and then here’s another reminder I should be practicing. Lemme go chat with my Sweet D fife/whistle set…

First, I should say I am a hack whistle player at best, having played flute and piccolo for longer than I care to admit so my opinions are uninformed at best on (or with) that end.

I went with the Sweetheart combo for concert and recording gigs because I played the dymondwood whistle once and found it didn’t immediately peel the paint off the wall in odd patterns like my original Susato and was stable throughout the range.

Having played pro flutes and tiny-flutes for years, I was a bit leery of the fife headjoint but since a fife head was inexpensive to add on the whistle I sprung for it.

What a pleasant surprise for a flutey. Now, if you don’t have a good ear plus a working flute embrochure, the fife head will call you out for a bit. It’s just the nature of the pipe structure to be out of tune on some notes but that’s the beauty of the beast and all part of taming her.

The fife head also gives a very subdued subjective response. I blew all three lungs through the thing at a concert and felt I hadn’t made a sound but when I got to the board recording, it was overwhelming.

I wouldn’t call picc/D fifes a challenge to whistles yet but the growing quality in makers just might make that flute-whistle divide a bit smaller…

~adrianne

20

Hi everyone!

It has been my understanding that the difference between flute, fife and piccolo has to do with the key of the instrument.
If its keyed in D (an octave higher than flute) then it is a pic. If its keyed in B flat its a fife.

While I am not certain why Skip designed the embouchure (?) that way, I can say that I find it easier to play than a round hole. (Maybe Skip could address this…if he’s reading!)

As for pricing for Healy instruments, the standard Bflat fife starts at $250; piccolos start at $325.

Just thought I’d add my two cents worth…

Peach