Hi all!
I’ve been playing whistle for 6 months, plus 6 months of alto r… before that. Currently I have a Sweetone, a Dixon Polymer (don’t like them) and a Dixon Trad. The Trad is good but it has some quirks and issues and now I think I want to buy a high-end whistle.
What I need:
Balanced octaves.
Around average volume, a compromise between home and session.
(Those two combined mean not very loud and piercing high notes plus a strong lower octave, I guess.)
Excellent tuning, resonsiveness and OXXOOO Cnat (rules out Sindt).
Some complexity in the tone.
Wind resistance, as they say, “is a plus”.
Right now all my whistles don’t need much air, but I’m also branching out to flute, so I guess I will get used to air requirements anyway.
No wood.
I’ve been considering Burke (an excellent whistle all around, but don’t know if it has enough tone complexity) and Milligan (a new and fascinating whistle, I’m emailing the maker about a quieter option), Sindt is ruled out because of Cnat. By the way, what’s the volume of Burke “session” and “narrow bore” whistles?
But I don’t know much about whistle makers and brands so I’m surely missing a lot.
… more time on the Dixon Trad…
the Trad is an outstanding whistle. you’ve only been at this for about a year… i’ve not been at it much longer… but, i decided i needed a high end whistle because the Dixon Trad and my Feadog just weren’t delivering. so i shopped around, bought three VERY nice whistles only learn that the quirks i noted in the Dixon and the Feadog were present in the expensive whistles, too… DANG! after another year or two of playing, those quirks in the feadog and the Trad are gone… and so are the high end whistles (except for one that I reallllllllllly like) and almost all my playing now is on the feadog or the dixon… go figure.
Burke is an excellent metal whistle. The session whistle is pretty loud, but it is not shrill at all. Most metal whistle players at my session play either Burkes or Copelnads. You said that you like back pressure though, and Copelands are very airy. What is complexity in tone? Are you looking for raspy or pure, or a nice balance of chiff? Out of my experience(which I am not a pro), what you described looks like a Burke narrow bore would be good for you. It has a nice volume at home, and it can still be heard at sessions(not as well as the session bore though).
Or if you like metal whistles with plastic tops, I would definitely recommend Hoover or Humphrey here, those are excellent whistles at a great price, and they also match at what you are describing.
I would really email the makers and see what they would recommend to you as well. Best of luck to you.
jiminos, thanks, I’ll consider it, not buying a whistle anyway for several months. Though on of the “issues” is a loose head fixed with insulation tape, so anyway I need a new tuneable whistle that I like, and the same one is boring. (WhOA-holic excuses, heh? )
The Whistle Collector, I don’t like a very “pure” tone like Susato or Dixon Polymer. Same with an “airy” tone like Clarke.
Some, but not extreme, “scratchy” complexity is nice, like Dixon Trad. As I understand it, Burke has it, especially in brass and in the higher octave. I’ll listen more closely to my teacher, I think I can live with it though it’s probably still a bit too “pure” for me. “Woody” complexity may also be OK.
Oh, and “wind resistance” as in outdoors playing .
Thanks, I’ll search for Hoover and Humphrey and ask some makers. (Not Burke as he’s busy as hell?) Milligan is a very nice guy but it seems lower volume can’t be done.
just had a thought… if the C nat is really important, i remember reading somewhere that the narrow bore whistles seem to have an issue with the oxx ooo C nat being a tad sharp. i tried this on a VS Susato D and on a Burke Narrow and found it to be true in those two cases… both had to be fingered oxx xoo to bring the Cnat back in line. not a problem if you’re good at adjusting and adapting… my tired old brain and fingers don’t adapt as well as they used to do.
oh.. that just triggered another thought… i have a Susato S set of D/C/Bb that is awesome! i don’t play them as much as the 'dog or the Trad because they are soooo loud, but… in terms of intonation, accuracy, playability, volume and consistency they are spot on! (the Bb is particularly wonderful!)
Perhaps Paul Busman would be willing to make one from delrin if you asked.
added - and yes, on the Burke narrow bore, you have to half-hole the C-nat, but it’s a great whistle, and half-holing is worth mastering. If volume wasn’t an issue, I’d say a Copeland will give you everything else you’re looking for. Despite what some have said about them, his newest ones are amazing IMO, but definitely different from the older ones. I did not like the Black Diamond I had - I’ll leave it at that. Goldies are wicked responsive, but have incredible backpressure - probably more than you will be comfortable with at this stage. Actually, a Harper is very comparable, with less backpressure (still a lot), and costs half the money of a Goldie.
Interesting. No one has recommended the Copeland or the Oz Vembrace though they have both been mentioned. I like my Copeland very well and have an Oz on order (I’ve expensive WhOA). I’d suggest that the original poster ought to check them out and also check out
And listen carefully. Recordings aren’t perfect, but you’ll soon get a basic idea what you are looking for. Particularly useful is the kerry whistles site where the playing is almost all by one or two people so you can really hear instrument differences.
Thanks. They’re the only two high end whistles I own that seemed to suit the requirements. The other one that may fall in that catagory is my O’Brien 3 piece Rover in copper (Older version), but it’s a little on the quiet side.
AvienMael, what didn’t you like about the Black Diamond? I feel it has minimal air requirements, good back pressure, is highly responsive, is quite loud enough to play in session settings without going overboard. The only ‘downside’, if you will, that I feel may cause the unpracticed BD player any problem is that it may be slightly harder to kick into the second octave than a most others. I don’t feel it is an issue once you’ve gotten used to the whistle though. Either way whistles are an individual thing.
I would recommend the Sindt even though you’ve ruled it out. I don’t see the problem with the C natural although I’ve read here before that the Sindt is tuned to halfhole the Cnat. Even if you have to find the sweetspot for it (eg. oxx xoo etc.) You will find that not all whistles respond the same way and by experimenting with alternate fingering you can only become a better player. There are so many ways to produce similar sounds on the whistle. Although there are “standard” methods, don’t rule out such a great whistle for such a “fault”. I’ve been playing the Sindt’s ( I have every key) long before he became so popular. I’ve played most of the higher end whistles and the Sindt is up there with the very best. Mary Bergin, Paddy Maloney etc… agree. That’s my humble opinion anyway.
So Elvellon, I’m reading all of this, and at this point I think your money would be best-spent on a Freeman-tweaked Generation for now.
Mick - my BD had a really fuzzy bottom end that drove me nuts - second octave had to be pushed out of it, sort of like you say, and sounded asthmatic - I didn’t like it. Maybe it was just the one I had…
It might help to have an idea of the budget you are planning to invest in this instrument. I tend to think of high end whistles being any that are more than $100… that leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Depending on how many hundreds you plan to spend there will be many that don’t fit in your price range.
As far as the quirks of low end instruments go, I have found in my experience that the idiosyncrasies of the cheapies are generally not found in high-end whistles. I have lots of cheapies to choose from and all have their own unique voice. I have only a handful of pricier whistles. Among the cheapies, sweetones, clark originals, generations. Almost all of which have had some sort of tweak to get them to play more consistently and with a fuller sound. The high-end whistles include Copeland, Seery, and Burke. These along with an older susato are the only ones I take to sessions or record with. None of them have needed tweaking to get the sound I want. All have different price points currently. (I’m not even sure you can find the Seery whistles all that easily)
There are many to choose from and honestly, given the “astonishment” in the review by Tony H. on the Oz whistles, this will most likely be my next high-end whistle purchase…
Getting advice on this board about your next purchase is a lot like any other internet community site. lots of smoke, no fire. Do yourself a favor and get to some sessions where you can hear these instruments in their performance settings and do what you can to try more than a few. You will find variances from high-end to high-end, but probably not a lot of the quirks that you find in the cheapies. Also you will have a fair idea about what is really out there and what you will enjoy playing for your personal preferences.
I love my Sindt. It is my favorite whistle. I use 0XXX00 or even 0XXXX0 for C nat. It works for me. It has he exact sound I like and is just incredibly easy to play. I don’t know how John does it but whatever it is it is 100% spot on.
Also, I have a Dixon heavy brass (thick-walled) tube high D whistle which is wonderful. Dixon also has an thick walled aluminum tube whistle which Tony Hinnigan reviews and gives high marks to.
These whistles are all fairly moderately priced in my opinion.
I just want to mention something here as there is an Urban myth about the back pressure of the design of whistle I make. My whistles will ONLY have lots of backpressure if I want to make them that way. Most of the instruments are what I would call middle blowers but I can make extremely soft blowing/ hard blowing whistles if requested. If asking why I do not make soft blowing whistles like some whistle makers have as a standard, it is simple, I don’t like to play those personally and from my experience with those who rely solely on their income on playing music, the majority I’ve worked with prefer what I would call middle blowers. This term changes from maker to maker depending upon what they personally think is hard or soft.
MY instruments are made individually and can be changed from one to the next depending what is required, while CNC made ones are produced to a standard to help ease production.
Cheers
Colin
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Looks and sounds great from what I have seen or heard from it.