Alright, you impoverished owners of several high end whistles, describe the different
playing characteristics and sound of your
best whistles so that we too may go and purchase them thus to live in a state of
blissful poverty.
Dunno, I’m still waiting for my Rose. I think that will be the only over $65 whistle I can afford though.
Personally I think the two best whistles
are Abells and Copelands. Many will
disagree with me, I’m sure, but I think
everybody who likes high end whistles
will at least understand why I think
this.
Abells are made of silver and blackwood.
The craftsmanship is impeccable. They
have a lovely light, airy sound (blackwood)
and are reasonably loud. Absolutely
in tune. Blackwood takes routine
drying out after playing (you run a
swab through the whistle) and occasional
oiling. The closest blackwood
competitor is the
Rose whistle, which I haven’t played.
Some people like it better, it’s cheaper
than the Abell, there was one report
(from Jessie K) that the low end
is too soft to be heard in sessions–
though by now others must have an
opinion on whether that’s true.
Michael Copeland and his associate
Jim Rementer make conical whistles
out of brass, nickel, and now silver.
I have a nickel D which is very
beautiful. The conical shape gives
it a flutey sound, which I like,
it has lots of volume (not so good
for an apartment). The workmanship
is once again impeccable–almost
a piece of jewelry. I like the nickel
D better than the brass. For me the
nickel Copeland D is pound for pound
the best whistle I’ve ever played.
The high end can be a bit shrill–
but I don’t mind.
Copelands come in many keys and are
very beautiful–Bb, A, G and low D
are the other ones I have. Abells
come in several keys too. You can
buy an Abell with two bodies, a D and
a C, or a Bb and an A (other keys too),
which makes them cheaper. The D is
perhaps the best of them.
Copelands take a long wait, Abells
take a wait but a shorter one.
You can find more info and pictures
on Dales’ high end whistles section
of the main website. Best
I’ll give this one a whirl.
My high end whistles are all Overtons right now. I’m so pleased with them that I do not feel any need to buy others until my Overton collection is complete, and that includes a couple duplicate keys just for variation.
I’m not going for all the flats, but I would like quite a few more before I move on. When I do move on, I’ll dabble in the pond of Burke and Copeland, also Hoover. I do have a Hoover low D made out of what looks like a shower curtain rod. My girlfriend has it right now, and whenever I pick it up I’m amazed by it. For what he charges, it’s a steal.
Here we go, more directly to the question. This is a comparison of high end vs. “low end” whistles, right?
What I have found is a more consitant tone and tuning in the Overtons. Octave jumps are more stable. By the way, I’m comparing them to Generations and Clarke original, which I always tweak. The gens I just clean up any left over plastic, and the clarkes I mutilate. Lately my love for these cheapies has grown. Mostly for the Gens. But I dig the lot that I have. They are all a bit different good or bad. I think most makes have a voice of thier own and it comes down to learning how to breath the right way into them.
This last point I feel is very important. It’s one of the reasons I’m going with just Overtons. I’m learning how they play. How they respond, what I can and cant do.
Tone starts to become apples and lemons. The key is to make the instrument in yer hands work for you.
One last thing, before I get in to deep, I appriciate something handmade. The quality of the craftmanship gets me. The feel of it in your hands, the weight of it. How solid it feels. Knowing that someone turned a tube a metal into an instrument is realy a great thing, and they did it with great care. For me it can’t be beat. I guess it’s the woodworker in me.
The craftsmen are a dying breed, support and enjoy the ones that are around. They make life better.
Jack Orion
My two favorite makers haven’t been mentioned yet.
The first medium-high end whistles I bought were a three-shaft (Eb, D, C) set of Water Weasels. I now have all the WW’s except low-F. These have a sound that’s at the same time pure yet chiffy. I can’t explain it. They have moderate wind requirements with very good feedback, are plenty loud, and a tad shrill toward the upper end. The D, Bb, and G are truly exceptional whistles.
I also obtained a Thin Weasel in D a few weeks ago. The sound is quite similar to the WW, the wind requirement somewhat more, and the volume also somewhat more. This one can strip paint above the high G. I can get somewhat more than two octaves on all the Weasels, probably an extra four notes on the TW.
I have a D Burke WB brass and three Al pros: D, low-D, and low-C. The D’s have a somewhat more traditional sound than the Weasels. They’re not very chiffy, a little breathy, and they’re “tinny.” The wind requirements are similar, but the volume somewhat less, and they’re less shrill in the upper register. I can get about 3-4 notes above the high-G in the WBB, but only one in the Al pro. The low-D is amazing – plenty of chiff, and it BOOMS right down to the low D. It’s very comfortable to hold, due to the shaft, which has a seam between the hands to allow the player to splay his hands if he wants. The low-C is a bit of a bear for me – it has a seam between the middle and ring fingers of the right hand to facilitate the reach to the last hole. I still can’t hold it for long periods of time, plus it requires a gargantuan amount of breath.
This all said, I will reinforce what another responder has said. One great difference between cheapie and high-end whistles is their playability. I can pick up any of these whistles any time, blow on it and know exactly what sound will come out of it. Octave transitions are easy, they’re all in tune with themselves (Burke has a legendary attention to tuning), and you can change the volume to a great extent in both octaves without it jumping, which allows you to be much more expressive.
Charlie
On 2002-02-06 07:52, chas wrote:
I have a D Burke WB brass and three Al pros: D, low-D, and low-C… I can get about 3-4 notes above the high-G in the WBB, but only one in the Al pro.
Charlie
Charlie, question:
I’m really interested in Burkes. (When I can afford a high-end whistle.) I am leaning toward the Al Pro, but I recently heard the brass played and it’s very nice. What did you mean about getting only one note above the high-G from the Al Pro? Are you talking about the second octave? It doesn’t get a whole two octaves? Or are we talking 2 1/2 octaves?
Thanks,
Kiirsi
I have a Burke Wide Bore Brass D - old style as I think Mike may have updated his design. It is a lovely whistle but the second octave A has a tendency to break up and drop an octave - I don’t think it is my technique but I could be wrong!
My partner has a Copeland D and it is gorgeous. All the notes sound clear as a bell and it is very easy to play. Copeland make lovely whistles but that wait is a killer.
Gerry Thompson
First, decide whether you go for wood or metal. My favourite metal ones are Overtons - they’re the first, the original, and for me still the best.
If it’s wood (and therefore probably a high rather than low whistle), my pick is the Rose blackwood. I have not played an O’Riordan, but I have played an Abell, and for me the Rose had better sound quality and balance. It is also on a par in terms of craftsmanship - Fred Rose is a genius (as is Chris Abell). It’s low note I found to be stronger than the Abell, btw.
On 2002-02-05 20:10, pmcallis wrote:
Alright, you impoverished owners of several high end whistles, describe the different
playing characteristics and sound of your
best whistles so that we too may go and purchase them thus to live in a state of
blissful poverty.
It strikes me that if poverty is bliss for you, you don’t need to know anyone’s opinions. All you need to know is the price tag! Go ahead and spend…
As most people around here know, I think buying any even moderately expensive instrument on someone else’s say-so (people whose experience and playing ability you have litte idea of, to boot) is akin to madness. What people want in a whistle varies so much.
I think that at the very least you should try one of the same make that belongs to someone else before you buy one.
Maybe you think you haven’t the experience to judge what you want. In which case… I’d say learn to play a little while longer before spending your hard-earned cash.
But if you must spend, be aware that even the most expensive makers sell substandard instruments sometimes. If you don’t play well enough to judge an instrument properly, you could be stuck with an expensive lemon (but a pretty one, I grant you).
On 2002-02-06 09:10, Cees wrote:
Charlie, question:
I’m really interested in Burkes. (When I can afford a high-end whistle.) I am leaning toward the Al Pro, but I recently heard the brass played and it’s very nice. What did you mean about getting only one note above the high-G from the Al Pro? Are you talking about the second octave? It doesn’t get a whole two octaves? Or are we talking 2 1/2 octaves?Thanks,
Kiirsi
I meant only one note above the High-D, as in the third octave.
WRT your question and Gerry1’s remark: I have old-styles in both the Al Pro and WB brass. I don’t know what Mike’s done to the WBB, but my Al has a delrin fipple blade – there’s been some discussion on the board that he may be making a metal blade now (I don’t remember whether a consensus was reached). I have no problem with the WBB dropping into the first octave; that may be due to my playing of the Weasels, which require more pressure to hold the higher register. I suspect that my difficulty in getting the third octave in the Al may be the delrin blade, but I could be totally offbase.
I personally prefer the WBB to the Al pro – the sound is quite similar, I think it’s just a tad more traditional in the WBB, but what I like a lot better about it is the feel – it’s a lot more massive, and I like the way it tarnishes. It looks played.
All the best, Charlie
I play a Burke brass high D (I can never remember the name–it’s the one with “pro” in it). It is a good whistle in all respects: it plays well without squawks and squeaks through both octaves (I never go for notes above high D); it is loud enough to hear in a session (though not as loud as a Copeland); and has a good tone. In short, it’s not that magical whistle that I imagine in my dreams, but it’s very good.
“I don’t know what Mike’s done to the WBB, but my Al has a delrin fipple blade – there’s been some discussion on the board that he may be making a metal blade now (I don’t remember whether a consensus was reached). I have no problem with the WBB dropping into the first octave; that may be due to my playing of the Weasels, which require more pressure to hold the higher register. I suspect that my difficulty in getting the third octave in the Al may be the delrin blade, but I could be totally offbase.”
It’s good to hear someone else has one of the Al-Pro’s with a Delrin blade. I was starting to think I’d imagined it (since I no longer have the whistle).
I may have to try one again, with the metal blade, as I think that would much improve the sound (more similar to the old WBB).
-Brett
[ This Message was edited by: bretton on 2002-02-06 10:40 ]
This discussion brings me to another question. Is it possible for one of you who has an Al-Pro to post a picture of it? Michael Burke’s web site doesn’t have many pictures, and none that I could find of the Al-Pro (and his brass pictures don’t do it justice, as the one I saw a few days ago in person was really beautiful). Maybe if someone has both, they could post a picture of both of them. I’d really appreciate it. Also, it seems to be the consensus that the brass is more liked than the aluminum–is this so? And if so, why? (A few answers have been mentioned–heavier material, etc.) I’m quite interested in knowing the differences in tone/sound between the two.
Thanks again.
Hello, Cees. I cannot help you with the picture, but possibly can with the information. I own a set of 4 AlPros and 2 Brass Pros. As has been stated previously in this thread, the Alpros are significantly lighter than the Brass Pros, but in no way do they feel flimsy or toy-like. The Alpros are produced with a mirror-like finish, not a matte-finish. Their sound is more pure in tone than the Brass Pros. My AlPros do not contain any chiff in their tone, to speak of…I find I play either of the whistle types as the mood demands. I do not find a significant difference in volume between the two. Because of the slight chiff and fuller, rounder sound of the Brass Pros, listeners may subjectively feel they are ‘louder’ than the AlPros.
In no way would I ever state that either is ‘better’ than the other. Mike builds a really fine product, and both are excellent examples of his designs.
Cheers to you.
Byll
I proudly have ThinWeasel Cocobolo D & Copeland Brass D, each are marvelous whistles. The ThinWeasel offers, in my experience, a purer sound than the more breathy Copeland, and allows for more expressive playing. With the ThinWeasel, I can modify volume and bend notes to a much wider degree than with the Copeland. For raw piercing power, I think the Copeland would win such a battle over the Thinweasel by a good nose. I prefer the Thinweasel for Church Choir, as the Copeland seems too “overpowering” with simultaneous vocals and too harsh a transition into/outof vocals in 2nd octave. For a Sessiun, its probably a tossup, except I find no moisture clogging with the ThinWeasel and occasional clogging with the Copeland. I first saw a Copeland played at a pub Sessiun in Kinsale about 2 summers ago. The whistler (from Philadelphia)was playing a nickel Copeland D, and told me he had to clear the moisture very often to avoid false notes. I don’t experience as much of a problem at all with my Copeland, but the humidity in our part of Canada doesn’t match that of a Kinsale pub on an Irish summer night. I fully agree with the wonderful Copeland description by Jim Stone above, and the wondeful ThinWeasel description given by Chas above. Both excellent whistles. (NOTE TO CHAS: I do have the WaterWeasel F, and it is indeed most excellent.)
Final Comment: For The Best Bang for the Buck (US or CDN) in the Over US$65 Category, I would nominate the WaterWeasel. A great Whistle at under US$ 70 (CDN$ 4,235,871).
Stevie J’s advice to play whistles
yourself before buying is certainly
well taken. On the other hand I’ve
often bought whistles I didn’t
know. Usually it’s worked out, sometimes the whistles made demands
I’d never had to meet and it took
awhile for me to get the chops.
Concerning the possibility of getting
stuck with a lemon, all the whistle makers
mentioned in this thread are extraordinarily
honest craftsmen. Whistles usually arrive
with a pretty lengthy trial period
(e.g. one month) during which you can
return them undamaged for your money.
On one occasion I wasn’t sure I liked
some whistles C.Abell had made for me;
as the time period came to an end he
told me just to keep trying them. I returned
them at about 6 weeks. (I like blackwood
better than delrin.)
In addition, if something is wrong
with a whistle, these guys will fix
or replace it. This seems to be
virtually forever. I just returned
a whistle to Mike Copeland for revoicing,
about two years after I bought it.
There are stories of people who sent
in a whistle to a high end maker for
some minor adustment and it was returned with
a newly designed head–for free.
An advantage of buying a high-end
whistle is that the package usually
includes a high-end whistle maker. Best
Thanks everyone for your great info especially Jim Stone, jackorion, chas,& Bob baks. I live in a little town in the
province of Ontario, Canada so it’s impossible to discover which whistles are
the best without your help. In summary,
Copeland, Overton, Rose, O’Riordan, Thin Weasel (Schultz), Burke and Abell are the names of the best whistle makers. Any more out there??..Harper?..Silkstone?..
StevieJ was right on. There’s also a lot of subjectivity, psychology (like I paid alot so it sounds great), and shifting moods here. But that said, my personal favorites are: My new old Copeland low G; my new old Grinter soprano D and Low F; Copeland soprano D; Overton Bflat; Thin Weasle soprano D; Burke Al-pro soprano D; Sindt C; Silkstone PVC C; Overton anodized low F. Note that my latest acquisitions are somehow always my favorites…hmmm I am currently awaiting shipment of Seery soprano D and Abell soprano D, both in delrin. Any bets on my favorites once these arrive? Enjoy Philo
I have a slew of nice whistles - but my favorites are (in no particular order…!):
-
An O’Riordan blackwood high D with what I believe is a hard rubber mouthpiece - I have had this one for at least 15 years, and it has a lovely round tone that is perfect for ballad playing.
-
A Copeland nickel high D that’s about 12 years old - my all-purpose screamer for volume and clarity.
-
A Water Weasel C that has it all - tone and tenderness, clarity and punch, plus the added attraction of waving a spectacular sounding PVC instrument in front of the noses of those crowing about the wonders of certain extremely expensive blackwood and silver knockoffs of Susatos…
-
Another great O’Riordan, this one in the key of E with the same type of rubber mouthpiece and a brass tube body, signed, by the way, by Matt Molloy with a pocket knife on St. Patrick’s Day 1990 - (the whistle cuts like a knife too!)
-
A low A brass Copeland which is perfect for mid-range harmonizing.
-
An original Overton low D, purchased in Dublin in February 1978 - I don’t like the taste of aluminum in my mouth (what was I saying?) but I sure do like the way it sounds…
-
A spectacular and rare Eb PVC whistle by my friend Chauncey Varney (spectacular because it practically plays itself, and rare because he only makes them once in awhile for fun)
…and then there’s the outrageously wonderful boxwood D whistle by Jon Swayne that my friend Albert owns which still leaves me trembling and clutching at the air with my fingers everytime I hear it - clearly there’s no cure, and, like real estate and fruit trees, there’s no more economical time to start then right now…!
Robert Resnik
Burlington, VT
As most people around here know, I think buying any even moderately expensive instrument on someone else’s say-so (people whose experience and playing ability you have litte idea of, to boot) is akin to madness. What people want in a whistle varies so much.
I think that at the very least you should try one of the same make that belongs to someone else before you buy one.
Maybe you think you haven’t the experience to judge what you want. In which case… I’d say learn to play a little while longer before spending your hard-earned cash.
But if you must spend, be aware that even the most expensive makers sell substandard instruments sometimes. If you don’t play well enough to judge an instrument properly, you could be stuck with an expensive lemon (but a pretty one, I grant you).
I have my share of very expensive whistles and they turned out to be much less perfect than I expected. When I finally found the whistle that satisfied me the most it was a Sindt D, one of the least expensive of the custom made whistles I had bought! But I’m sure there are other people who might not like them so by all means take Steve’s advice and try a whistle before you buy.
I think Stevie has hit the nail squarely on the head here. Everyone likes to talk about his or her favorite whistles and just about everyone has a different opinion! And the thing is no one is right and no one is wrong! It’s completely subjective. One thing is sure. You won’t necessarily get a better whistle by paying more money. In fact just the opposite could be true. It could be a totally wrong choice for your needs.
Best wishes, Tom