Do I dare add my own thoughts?!
I’m a new maker, maybe 2 years at most, and only about a year or less taking it more seriously. That does allow me to have this perspective: the consistency with which the top flutes are made is insane and the effort needed to accomplish that may seem trivial, but it’s anything but.
To the original point. I admit to never having played a Copley, but I do know the reputation and that is stellar.
So to address the initial question: what constitutes an “upgrade” to you. A few options to consider:
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- Material - I can understand the desire to own a wooden flute. Delrin and similar materials can make amazing flutes, especially in the hands of the makers who have been developing these models for a while now. I imagine in many cases you’d have a difficult time in a blind test reliably identifying the two. BUT, there’s something about wood that feels nice, and to many there’s a sense of connection with the past even in a modern-made instrument. There’s also, right or wrong, a feeling of professionalism with a wooden instrument vs polymer.
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Tuning slide - frankly not an upgrade. Most instruments are tuned well enough that minor adjustments can be made by the player. Unless you play outside in a marching band and so inside the pub by the fireplace, most people won’t need to adjust barely ever. It is NICE to have, but not necessary and not worth “upgrading” just for that. If it has it, great, if not, no big deal. My own flutes are fully lined with tuning slides, but that’s personal preference in what I chose to make rather than a value judgement on the merits of slides.
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Instrument quality / playability / tone - Copley is up there with reputation so the question becomes what aspect you are trying to upgrade in quality. To that end, I think the only reliable way to determine what would constitute and upgrade would be to play the flutes and see what felt most responsive and intuitive with the player end of the instrument, your breath and embouchure.
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Keys - obviously, if you are interested in expanding your musical range, then keys will facilitate that. They aren’t strictly necessary for ITM though can be useful at times. That is to say, keys are only an upgrade if the lack of keys are dampening your enjoyment.
So my personal opinion would be that if you are enjoying the Copley, and don’t have aims to play gigs in key signatures that would require keys, then you don’t need an upgrade. If you wanted to supplement your collection, that’s what you’d be doing by getting another keyless flute, rather than upgrading, per se. Even getting a wooden a flute would be down to some desire for that “feel” of wood, vs delrin, as opposed to an upgrade.
Now, as to cost and Pakistani made flutes and the like I think much has been said in these last couple pages. I’ll offer this.
From what I can tell, Pakistani made flutes and those made in Pakistan and perhaps tweaked by more known makers, are much better now than their reputation online would lend you to believe. That is, while the stereotypical eBay flutes are likely still firewood, there are some makers from that region making okay instruments, for the most part playable and generally in tune. They suffer significant issues of quality control and so vary significantly in quality between instruments. But, generally, they are now playable, even their keyed flutes.
I had a maker from that region reach out and offer to send me an example of his flutes, modeled to some extent after an Irish makers offerings (not M&E, though the images of the Blackwood keyed flute on offer gave me some pause…). I will say this, while the embouchure needed a good amount of work it was thankfully on the small side and was easily re-worked to be half-decent. And while the bore may never be great, a bit of effort there smoothed it enough that it’s not too bad. The keys are large and clunky but they work smoothly and seal. That is to say, it’s a working keyed flute.
Now, as to the question of value. I would not buy a flute if its quality for the price listed on certain retail sites. In my opinion they are worth something to a beginner looking to get a budget flute to learn to play with keys and see if it’s something they like. But to hopefully expand on what I take to be paddlers point, functional doesn’t mean good. And I think the key reason for Cyberknights thoughts are because these offerings are overvalued making it seem like the effort to make them more in line with quality makers isn’t all that large.
Keys may be functional and seal well, but what about responsiveness, weight, feel/reach of the fingers, etc. Aesthetics obviously also play a part. Sports cars don’t just perform great, they look nice as well. It’s not a primary reason for their draw, but for many it’s important; after all you spend hours and hours a week (or day!) with it, it should please you to look at it.
As to the cost of keys. To be clear, a six key flute has several hundred dollars worth of silver on it, regardless of the effort to build. And never mind any wasted parts from failed castings or screw ups (which do happen!). Think about this too: every time you touch a part you risk marring or even ruining it. Every time you drill a hole you risk tear out, every time you undercut a hole you risk throwing the whole instrument off balance intonation-wise which means potentially having to retouch every hole. It may not seem like it but even closed toneholes impact the intonation and tonality of a flute.
Think about this too, a keyless flute is a tube with seven holes in it and they command a good price, a six key flute has twice as many tone holes, additional counterbores for the pad seats, additional blocks that need to be machined or posts that need to be laid out, drilled and tapped precisely, and all that silver that needs to be made, shaped, polished, pads added to diff springs adjusted and readjusted, etc. it’s a daunting task to do well.
Yes, it can be done with less effort with mass manufactured keys of inferior materials and bulky design, but as paddler said keys as designed to suit the flute. A flute can be fitted with a pre-made key by locating it as needed based on the pad size, but a GOOD key is sized and fitted to the flute, not the other way around.
I understand what cyber knight is saying. Flutes CAN be made more cheaply. But I’d say making them more inexpensively is not likely to happen. These are fine instruments that take years to master the design, crafting, tooling, voicing of and that experience and end product come at a premium. And there aren’t that many makers out there in general making keyed flutes. Getting them all together to remake their whole designs just to save a couple bucks by mass producing keys as some sort of co-op isn’t likely to happen. And the demand isn’t there for like a flute makers guild where they all make the same flute for mass retail.
A decent, playable Irish flute, even a keyed one, can be had for a budget value. M&E flutes are a good example of this. I own a keyless that I’ve been very happy with and I leave it assembled and take camping with me. I’ve played a six key delrin and wasn’t very pleased with it. But I know several people who play them anyway and do a great job of it.
With that said, A quality flute that will please you to hear and allow you to get the most possible out the instrument as you grow as a player comes at a premium because to make such an instrument is a LOT of work and takes an incredible amount of knowledge, experience, and craftsmanship.
Many makers can get 95% of the way there and for many or most people that is probably enough. I’ve honestly been tempted to offer reworked Pakistani flutes myself, clearly labelled as such, at a lower price point than offered by others currently, explicitly for that market that wants a serviceable flute but with the full understanding that it’s not their forever flute. I’ve not elected to go that route at this time though, for a variety of reasons.
But I think the reason why that last few percent gap commands such a high price is that the effort and attention to detail required is so much greater. With years of experience a skilled maker can do that work efficiently, but make no mistake. It’s a lot of work.
This is why I don’t believe there is a middle ground. Either make it serviceable, good enough, and sell for relatively cheap, or put in the time and effort to make it as good as your skill allows. Those who are able and willing to put in the time are making instruments at the height of the craft and the cost of the instruments reflect that as they do with any other instrument on the market. It’s as much a work of passion as it is production.
Those are my thoughts anyway. I’d keep the delrin unless you want wood or keys
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