Hi there C&F Community.
I apologize first off, if this question has been asked a million times before. There’s just so much info that’s scattered everywhere using the search function that it’s a little hard to sift through it all.
So anyway, I’ve recently got obsessed with the Irish flute and was wondering where to start looking to buy one of my own.
For the time being I’m sticking to Doug Tipple’s PVC flute and perhaps one of Erik the Flutemaker’s flutes, but eventually I want to progress and buy a great one that I will never have to replace, most likely, a simple 1 key system will be fine.
What I wanted to know is which flutes would you suggest for me? My budget would preferably be between $500 to $800 (Miiight be able to stretch that a bit).
Also, I’m looking for a nice reedy tone which is bold and loud. Loud enough so that it can be used in say, an auditorium and be heard without any amplification.
Alternately, I’m also looking for something that is meditative and soft in volume.
What flutes would you suggest I look at to fulfill both ends of the spectrum?
Also, I have a question regarding the bore of a flute. I’ve read about conical bores and cylindrical bores but I don’t really get the whole physics behind it.
In terms of playability and sound can anyone elucidate the difference between the 2, in the most layman terms possible?
I want to progress and buy a great one that I will never have to replace, most likely, a simple 1 key system will be fine.
I’m (relatively) new to this, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. I don’t think a one-key flute is what you’re looking for. A single key makes sense on a baroque flute (often called a traverso), where the small holes allow the player to use special fingerings to play in all scales. The single key provides the Eb, and helps correct the intonation of the other notes. However, Irish flute playing is based on later historical flutes that have larger holes. A single key on a flute like this will let you play Eb, but doesn’t provide much else. You’re better off with a good quality keyless flute.
For US$500-800, you should be able to find a quality instrument, but it will take some looking. Most good keyless flutes start at $1000. Casey Burns makes a great keyless flute for$700, but I would call the tone sweet and rich, rather than the reedy and bold you mentioned. For that, the usual advice seems to be that you want something in a large-holed Pratten style. There is a used Skip Healy two-piece keyless flute for sale on woodenflute.com ( http://www.woodenflute.com/public/forsale ) that actually might be what you are looking for. I have an older Skip Healy five-key that is definitely big and reedy.
But in case you’re not going to take Denny’s thoughtful advice, I’d suggest considering one of Dave Copley’s slideless blackwood flutes. At a bit over $500, it’s a well-made, well-tuned instrument with plenty of dynamic range, and it can be redone with keys if you decide that’s what you like (Dave’s doing that for me now).
My only reservation about slideless is that if you’re going to play with others, you definitely want that tuning slide. It’s that, or be an irritant. I know a fellow who has a slideless Copely (and a good-enough sounding stick it is, IMO), but he plays sharp, and when the flute warms up he’s sharper yet. At sessions, it’s frankly a trial to hear and worse yet in close proximity. As an alternative to a slide he tried pulling the headjoint’s socket away to expose the tenon as far as acceptable structure would allow, but it wasn’t much of a solution.
If you’ll be performing, being in tune with everyone else is not an option. If you’ll only be playing solo forever (I can’t imagine it, though), then slideless ought to be just fine.
Perhaps it’s because I usually play with the same folks (most relevant, the same box player), but I haven’t had this problem with the slideless flute; there seems plenty of available adjustment by shifting the tenon a bit. Honest question (and probably a thread derailer, sorry): given the number of satisfied players of Doyles, Burns Folk Flutes, Copley delrin and blackwood, and other slideless beasts, how many have found this an issue?
Even if none, the answers you get may not put the issue to rest, as we fluteplayers have a notorious and in my experience well-founded reputation for not always hearing when we’re out of tune. Now, you may be perfectly in tune with your box player, and that of course is good (without a slide near-miraculous, I’d say), and have the ears to hear it. But there are a lot of players with slides who play sharp in my town, and worse yet, when told they’re sharp, they either flat-out refuse to accept it, or they insist that the slide must be at a just-so expanse, no compromise, and basically do little more than twist the headjoint a bit but fundamentally do nothing to improve their pitch. So having any issues or not with one’s own pitch may strictly be subjective. I think I have a good ear, and I’ve been told that I do, but I’ve been asked to retune on occasion when I thought my pitch was fine. That’s usually at sessions, though, where tuning is already often all over the place, and a bit of a lost cause.
Long story short, I trust others’ ears more than I do my own, even though generally speaking I think I have reason to trust mine well enough.
I gotta go with Nano on this one. If you can hear yerself. . .yer quite probably sharp. I spent years in classical, learning to “hide” in the ‘wind-choir’, both being in tune and still able to hear myself. Now, that said, that isn’t the world of ITM, but smaller sessions have much of the same emotional dynamic as chamber consorts. If you want a ‘tight’ session, and want to be a welcome session-mate, you should strive to be in tune.
Playing with a box is problematic. They’re fixed tuned, but depending on the box, can have multiple reeds and be tuned quite ‘wet’.
If you really want to be known as ‘the guy with the factory-tuned flute’ you may find yourself mostly playing with teh bodhrans and didgeridoos. . . .
I had always thought that tuning slides come from a time when no one could agree on a standard pitch, so instruments had to be designed with a wider tuning range than what you could achieve just moving the head joint on its tenon. Terry McGee has a great discussion on his site about why they might still be desirable: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/heads.html , though he also makes flutes with his “Minimum Distortion Tenon” that provides a side range of tuning.
Skip Healy’s flutes are also made without tuning slides, because his head joint tenons are made of silver tubes that allow you to tune the flute in the way you tune a modern silver flute.
I’ll agree with Denny on this one. I do have a question though. Do you have the opportunity to try out and borrow flutes? If you wait a while and try a few, you’ll have a better idea in which direction to go. In the meantime, you have a Tipple, always the good choice.
What I’m interested in is whether the tenon adjustment on a slideless flute allows, in your experience, adequate adjustment for a player who does strive to be in tune, has a reasonably good ear, and is playing with folks whose fixed pitch instruments aren’t totally out of line with standard pitch. Nano says no; fair enough. That’s why I asked, and why it seemed useful to ask in the context of the OP’s question. But the examples of the guy who won’t adjust the slide or the player who thinks the instrument came from the factory in tune aren’t really to the point.
Here’s a brief quotation from the FAQ section on Martin Doyle’s website, in response to a question about whether the slideless flute’s pitch sharpens after it has warmed up:
“Yes they do and how that’s compensated is that the joint of the flute is a tuning devise and can be pulled out up to five millimetres. This allows all of the tuning that will be necessary to keep the flute perfectly in the pitch it’s designed to be in.” http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/faq.html#faqts
My first good wooden flute was a Copley. When I realized tuning it in session was a challenge, I sent it back to Dave to have a slide installed. It’s still my main flute.
If I had it to do over, I would have opted for a tuning slide in the first place.
Ah, surely, Martin makes lovely flutes. . .and makes a grand noise as a player. . .but. . .and there always is a but.
Five millimetres ain’t much. If you get into a ripping session and you are a little over your head. . .and so maybe you blow a little sharper than normal. . .and that five millimetres is now history and you’ve drawn the tenon enough to distort the scale and yer pucker factor goes up a little more and yer a little sharper still. . .and then ten more players land on the session and the room temp goes up still more. . .
You get the idea
I think a slide that allows you to tune up or down quite a bit is a necessity for an ideal flute, especially if you want to play with other people. With wooden flutes a separate tuning slide section is often the answer for this. McGee’s minimum disruption tuning tenon and Healy’s silver insert tenon, as has been mentioned, are other ways to accomplish this with wooden flutes. However, with polymer flutes that have greater strength/toughness than wooden flutes, a long tuning tenon, machined from the material itself, is all that you need for more than adequate tuning. For example, the tuning tenon on my pvc flutes is 2 inches (50 mm) long, and that is a lot of headroom.
You’d probably have an easier time if you asked which flutes to avoid. There are no “best” flutes. There are makers some here love that I think are trash, and I’m sure most experienced players have felt that way about one maker or another. Trying flutes is your best bet. And remember that most of us don’t end up marrying our high school sweetheart, so don’t be disappointed if you eventually outgrow whatever you think is wonderful now.
Some general thoughts: Stick with wood. Stick with a conical bore. Go with a tuning slide. Go for a larger bore and toneholes if you want a bigger sound. Pay attention to the cut of the embouchure hole so that you will learn which cuts you get the best tone with.
I absolutely agree with Denny. I’m in no hurry to buy a flute just yet and I know over time my budget will surely increase. As I understand you have to wait almost 2 years for a good keyed flute so it’ll give me plenty of time to save up. (Assuming only a deposit is taken first, ofcourse)
As of now, I will most definitely look into the Copley and Burns Folk Flute.
Unfortunately as of now, I’m not really in a place where trying out flutes is an option. I live in Singapore for the time being and it has absolutely 0 Irish Flute shops. Atleast to my knowledge.
I will however be in UK in a few short months and then I’ll have liberty to just try out flutes and find what I’m looking for.
And yes, I definitely agree that I may outgrow the first flute (or second, or third) that I have, but it can only be for the better so I’m not too fussed about that.
I’ve been looking into Jem’s flute maker’s list and seeing which other flute makers are out there. Also, I’ve been told by a friend to avoid Erik (the Flutemaker’s) flutes so I’ll be doing just that.
What’s the difference in tone between a conical and cylindrical bore?
And please, don’t worry about derailing this thread. I’m just a day old in the world of Irish Flutes and I’d love to learn as much as possible!
EDIT: I’ve been looking at Terry McGee’s Pratten Perfected, Casey Burns’ Large Holed Standard and Hammy Hamilton’s 6-Keyed Flute (I read up on the benefits of keys and being an Indian Flautist, I’d like to get 4 - 6 on the flute I end up buying.)
Would people recommend the above mentioned flutes for session playing? Which one do you personally prefer?
Those 3 are only my first options that I’ve looked into. Jem’s list is massive and going through it is obviously going to take a lot of thought and time, so yea, haven’t made my final pick… just wanted to know people’s opinions
A conical bore imparts a sweeter tone, but requires more air to play well and also reduces the volume of the sound. It seems to suit the way most ITM players play because we overblow a bit to get that quintessentially “Irish” sound. On a cylindrical bore, it tends to sound harsh rather than reedy, but that isn’t to say that some players haven’t mastered the sound with a cylindrical bore, even on a Boehm flute.
I guess as a matter of advice, I’d suggest you go with what most Irish players play. There are all kinds of ways to buck the tide and be able to say, “See? I can get a good Irish sound with a cylindrical delrin flute in G with small holes and a square emblouchure,” but if you listen to me, you’ll get yourself a good-quality wooden flute designed after the eight-key wooden flutes of the 19th century. Anything less will leave you feeling like you compromised, and if you love (or come to love) playing ITM, you don’t want that.
