I own a fine mandolin, which is my primary instrument. I also happen to have a Martin tenor guitar, which I have tuned like an octave mandolin, but I am thinking of trading it in for a bazouki/octave mandolin. First off, I’m not even sure I understand the subtle differences between what is loosely called a bazouki, and an octave mandolin. Any explaination to point me in the correct understanding is MUCH appreciated.
Thanks,
~Jayjay
Hi Jayjay,
The generally held view is that an octave mandolin (in Europe it’s called an octave mandola) has a scale length of somewhere between 20 and 23 inches, whereas a bouzouki’s scale length is (usually) from 24 to 27 inches. As an example, I have a Foley bouzouki with a 26.5 inch scale length and a Freshwater OM with a 21.5 inch scale. I use the Freshwater strictly for playing tunes (melody) and I’ll flatpick or fingerpick the Foley for backing tunes and song accompaniment. To further confuse the issue (:-]) my Flatiron has a scale length of 23.5 inches and the label says it’s a 'zouk and the endblock says it’s an OM. The body size usually varies in relation to the length of the neck.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Paul! I think if I play the mandolin, then I’d prefer the shorter scale length. I can assume banjo and guitar players would do well with the longer neck, and prefer a bouzouki. I am going to proceed by looking for a mandola/octave mandolin, then, as what I know in the mandolin family, one can take a mandola and tune it either a lower octave GDAE or like a mandola CGDA. I’m thinking that an octave mandolin and a mandola are almost the same? Do you mind commenting about the differences between those, in the application of Irish Tradition?
I’ve only picked up a bouzouki/octave mando once or twice (not knowing really what to call it) and noticed the instrument has interval tunings on some of it’s strings, (octaves on the lower strings?). Is tuning not so traditional ? My biggest concern is not tuning an instrument with gauges of strings it’s not structurally ideal for, then one can open a can of worms with intonation.
So, I guess what I need to know is :
Is the instrument used as an octave mandolin actually longer scale than a mandola?
Is the interval tuning a set thing, as bouzoukis have, and can they freely be incorporated onto either mandola/octave mandolin?
There are tonnes of ways you can tune a bouzouki, the tunings I’ve seen are ADAD, GDAD, and GDAE. Some people have the courses in octaves, other’s tune them in unison, its up to you.
Octave Mandolin is larger than a mandola and smaller than a mando-cello or a bouzouki, and is usually tuned GDAE, although CGDA could be done I’d imagine.
Hope that helps,
Dan
I see, that’s what I thought. I’d of course, tune it just like the mando, so I didn’t have to learn any new skill, just double up what I already know. (lazy! 
)
Octave Mandolin is larger than a mandola and smaller than a mando-cello or a bouzouki, and is usually tuned GDAE, although CGDA could be done I’d imagine.
Hope that helps,
Dan
I thought as much. Thanks again. I think I’ll need to go to a place in Mendocino (CA) which sells lots of these acoustic instruments, and compare them. Thanks alot!!!
Jayjay,
I wouldn’t take a mandola and try tuning it GDAE. You’d probably knock both your eyes out with all the broken strings you’d have. There’s a whizzo banjo player in Ireland named Gerry O’Connor who uses the CGDA tuning on his tenor banjo if you’re looking for inspiration in Irish trad with that tuning. If you can manage that tenor guitar an OM should be easy to get used to.
Hi jayjay,
All the tunings and names of the larger-sized members of the mandolin family will drive you nuts.
From your previous posts and from what we’ve sharred, I strongly suggest that you look at the Fender brand OM (just Google, you’ll find it). It’s made in a factory in China and goes for a price you won’t have to sell your Martin to get. It has a good sound and a nice pickup built in. It’s not a masterpiece of the luthier’s art, but it will get you where you really want to go for a price that won’t kill you. Check it out.
And yes, you can put different strings on anything in the mando family and tune them a dozen ways. That won’t get you off first base though. Buy a Fender and start the journey. You can always sell it on mandolincafe.
Surprised no one has asked yet, but do you intend to play melody or backing? Because of the shorter scale it is easier to play melody on an OM and due to the longer scale which increases sustain Bouzoukis are generally considered better for backing.
Although, I have an OM which I tune to GDAD (usually) and use it for backing and if I want to play the melody I play my Mando which is in GDAE if I am not playing Flute or Whistle. I also use the tuning GDGD on my OM for songs that I know the chords for in D, but can’t sing them in D and capo up on the OM to play in B or whatever key the song is in.
If this is an instrument with a floating bridge, you also have the option of modifying or having it modified with four extra strings to turn it into a bouzouki-like instrument.
Oh , I meant to specify I’d be dropping down a fifth from the CGDA to achieve lower, ocatave mandolin, rather than up, to mandolin range.
There’s a whizzo banjo player in Ireland named Gerry O’Connor who uses the CGDA tuning on his tenor banjo if you’re looking for inspiration in Irish trad with that tuning. If you can manage that tenor guitar an OM should be easy to get used to.
That’s just it, if I’m going to play with others, it has to be GDAE, that’s all I know how to Think In… if that makes any sense. I realize many musicians are versatile in different tunings, but that isn’t I… I am merely a ‘mandolin player’ … 
Thank you so very much Tim! I promise you then, so that I won’t regret it, I won’t sell the Martin to some silly OM peddler.
I’ll google and see what I can learn from there.
Precisely my angst with the Martin, I simply cant chord on it. I developed my lead skills ten times better than my chording, but I’m learning some nice crosspicking styles for backup & fill, and on the mandolin I am able to chord well enough. I think I’ll try them out at the shop and see what I like best, but it’s here that I’ll learn what is used more in the traditional sense. I don’t want to have to tune up to weird keys I can’t play, which has had me totally lost in jams before. I am not an instant transposer , so I just have to Think Mandolin.
Although, I have an OM which I tune to GDAD (usually) and use it for backing and if I want to play the melody I play my Mando which is in GDAE if I am not playing Flute or Whistle. I also use the tuning GDGD on my OM for songs that I know the chords for in D, but can’t sing them in D and capo up on the OM to play in B or whatever key the song is in.
Well, I keep forgetting about the handy gadget of a capo, since I have always played mandolin I wouldn’t think of using one… heh, heh. I suppose becoming familiar with capo (as I do on the Martin, but the intonation suffers) on a good OM will be my answer. I will want to experiement with the octave stringed couplets like the bouzouki apparently has. I dunno, mayb I’ll fall in love with some crazy 'zouk … 
… when at the music store.
If you’re talking about my mandolin, I think I’ll just keep my nice mandolin traditional, maybe play around on a cheaper one, would be interesting, just for affect. If you’re talking about my Martin, um… I think Tim would shoot me (I think he’s a Martin fan.. ) Thanks for the idea!
I get the picture here on this thread, that most anything goes in the Irish music ?
Ummmmmm… that depends what, when, and where you mean by “the Irish music”. But basically no. And yes. But if anything went in a style of music… would it be a style of music? Just a thought. I’ll let someone knowledgeable than me explain.
That’s pretty deep.
Is there an anarchist style of music?
Maybe “Celtic” music.
Or Jazz.
All the actual anarchists I’ve ever met seem to love classical music, of all things. Huh.
On the thread about “what instruments do we play” it came up with Nanohedron about a cittern. It was mentioned they are sometimes tuned in fifths, and have 5 couplets. I’m really curious about this thought.
Hoping to find out who knows scale length >>and general other things<< of cittern as compared to the other instruments we’re talking about : Octave mandolin , Mandola, and bouzouki.
For one, I bet citterns are much harder to find. 
Here we get into “tomayto/tomahto”, a bit. Just to confuse things, the terms “bouzouki” and “cittern” get interchanged, these days. For me, an Irish bouzouki has quite a long-scale neck with eight strings in four double courses, and a modern cittern has a short-scale neck with ten strings in five double courses.
Still, there are makers who offer short-scale 'zouks, and long-scale 'zouks with five courses. Is it really a cittern, then? I dunno. They have similar bodies, after all, although most 'zouk bodies are smaller than cittern bodies in my experience. I just think of the basic idea as reasonably duplicating the cittern’s proportions as found in Ireland and the British Isles in the 1700s, and the Irish bouzouki as duplicating the long neck of its bowl-backed Greek progenitor. But that’s just a jumping-off point, really. A short-scale 'zouk could technically be called a cittern, as citterns historically have had all sorts of sizes, string counts, course counts, and tunings. Clear as mud?
Best as I know, anyway, your “usual” (as I count it) cittern’s scale will be shorter than your usual 'zouk, and I think longer than an octave mando or mandola.
In terms of people who play them, I’d say that’s right. In terms of makers, not so much. They’re out there. Foley (no website, now; I hope he’s still making his excellent instruments), Sobell (who revived the instrument), Fylde, Moon, others. Maybe someone could direct you in this. I’ve got my gizmo, am most happy with it, and so I really don’t surf around looking at other makes.
I think I understand well that part.
…Still, there are makers who offer short-scale 'zouks, and long-scale 'zouks with five courses. Is it really a cittern, then? I dunno. They have similar bodies, after all, although most 'zouk bodies are smaller than cittern bodies in my experience. I just think of the basic idea as reasonably duplicating the cittern’s proportions as found in Ireland and the British Isles in the 1700s, and the Irish bouzouki as duplicating the long neck of its bowl-backed Greek progenitor. But that’s just a jumping-off point, really.
I’m with you so far. I understand how these instruments in a modern sense , begin to overlap.
A short-scale 'zouk > could > technically be called a cittern, as citterns historically have had all sorts of sizes, string counts, course counts, and tunings. Clear as mud
Clear !
Best as I know, anyway, your “usual” (as I count it) cittern’s scale will be shorter than your usual 'zouk, and I think longer than an octave mando or mandola.
[quote=“jayjay”]
For one, I bet citterns are much harder to find.
[/quote]In terms of people who play them, I’d say that’s right. In terms of makers, not so much. They’re out there. Foley (no website, now; I hope he’s still making his excellent instruments), Fylde, Moon, others. Maybe someone could direct you in this. I’ve got my gizmo, am most happy with it, and so I really don’t surf around looking at other makes.
Okay, I think that I might actually consider a cittern --in addition to, or over an Octave mandolin – as it just might tickle a nerve in other applications (Latin sounds). I think at this point I might need to listen to soom good examples of the two >> octave mandolin , and cittern << and begin to get creative.
Still, I bet price will have a lot to do with my decision, at least for now. Thanks so very much Nano! 