Cittern. (Was: New Forum! HOt-Diggity-Dog!)

I guess I’ll break it in, then.

So, is a cittern traditional or not?

I’m not sure. As Giver of This Forum, I, uh, don’t remember what it is.

Dale

I don’t know either.

And thus I gain one more post!

Just had to put my first personal post in this forum. Neato! I play guitar (amongst others)…and have taken interest of zithers. :smiley: :party:

Sure is pretty, though:

http://www.dustystrings.com/shop/cittern_info.shtml

Dale

probably as traditional as a keyless Pratten…

Ah! A Sobell. That’s the guy who purportedly revived the instrument.

Doesn’t beat a Foley, though. :wink:

Or a low whistle? :smiling_imp:

Please, please. The carping serves you all ill. :laughing:

Sobol, do you mean maybe, Nano?

Joseph Sobol, former Chicagoan, is the guy I think of as reviving it. His album, Citternalia, is lovely.

Nice new forum!

Carol

Hey, Carol. No, I mean Sobell. As in Steve Sobell, of Northumberland, I think it is. He started building 5-coursed gizmos like the one above in the 1970s, which, incidentally, are reasonably similar to citterns made in Dublin, at least, in the 1700s. The Irish called the cittern the “English Guitar”. The term “cittern” I understand to be more the Scots usage at the time. The old instrument fell out of use around the 1850s, I believe, so a gap of about one hundred years elapsed before its modern reinterpretation.

I’ve heard Citternalia is a great album. Haven’t heard it yet; maybe I won’t. Melody players make me depressed. :laughing:

You know, this reminds of the time I was at a party to celebrate my cousin’s graduation from the University of Chicago. I remember standing around, champagne glass in hand, earnestly offering my own views of particle physics to his fellow physics majors.

Sorry, there, Nano. :blush:

clinks glass

Carol

Hey, that’s a reasonable mixup. When I heard of a crack citternist (Citterner? Citternite?) with the name of Sobol, I thought it was a bit uncanny. Don’t know if he plays a Sobell, though. Sobells ARE well-regarded.

SO, what distinguishes this instrument? How’s it tuned and what’s the range and all that?

DW

Typically five courses of ten strings, neck scale usually a bit shorter than your average guitar. Tunings are varied, but DGDAD --which I use-- is popular, and works very nicely for backup playing. CGDAE is popular with melody players, but not exclusively so: Gerald Trimble, who plays a Sobell, by the way, tunes his DAEAE, and not infrequently uses a capo to get GDADA. Some players employ octave strings from the middle to bass courses, but my impression is that most people don’t do this and stick to having each course in unison with itself. Well, “unison” could be argued, but you get my drift. It’s unison courses for me, too.

And when you play back-up for ITM (not talking about other types of music), do you whang away loudly at chord after chord or do you do some single string (probably not appropriate language for cittern since the strings are in courses) things to break up the chords or even just play single string? What do you consider a nice sounding back-up for ITM? I can’t really participate in discussing this since I don’t know what it should sound like. I do know that the loud constant chord thing does not please my particular ear.

Well, Nano, I know you don’t whang away—it’s just a sort of bee in my bonnet at this point.

Caution: longwinded screed ahead.

I can only come from my taste in this, but I believe less is more. It’s all about the melody first, foremost and always, and backup is called just that for a reason. Whanging away ruins things and pisses people off. It’s just crude. I go for a variety of approaches, including breaking things up as the limits of my skill allow, much as you described. I think it’s important to be able to now and again follow the melody line either directly or in harmony --just a handful of notes will do the trick-- as “it lets the musicians know you care”, as local guitarist/fluteplayer Brian Miller put it (and that underscores the real necessity of knowing the tunes, or at least getting a grip on the unknown one right quick). I also love the instrument’s capacity to be played in a tinkling sort of way without having to resort to melodic playing, but you can get some really chugging rhythms going, too. Much of the time I just sound only three courses at a time. It’s a spare approach but it serves the music well because a more modest tack supports better, I think. It sounds more “trad” that way, anyway. But that’s just me. :slight_smile:

Well, when you say a tinkling sort of way without actually playing the melody, then are you using say, finger picking patterns the way one might on a guitar? You aren’t playing the tune, but you are playing a chord with your left hand and then picking strings in that chord according to some pattern with your right hand, having the rhythm of the picking natually be compatible in some way with the rhythm of the tune?

Yep, exactly, except for the fingerpicking part. I only use a flat pick, myself. I’ll also do one- or two-note variations within that chord, like going into a D note in a D chord from C# or Cnat, say. It’s what’s called a hammer-on among guitarists.

Okay, I understand what you mean. I hope I will get to hear you sometime. It sounds like what you do would nice quite nice. I don’t have a problem with back-up per se, but even in a very well known group I found the guitar to just be unbearable. I think your comment about the necessity of knowing the tune is interesting since a lot of the time it seems that the person is just changing chords when the tune changes but doesn’t enhance the music in any way. I don’t think they could hum the tune if asked. They could simply get a loud chord making machine and tell it ahead of time when to change chords. Maybe you should write a tutorial. I’m serious.