Just my curiousness killing me, wanting to know more before I hopefully get my practice set. Is there a difference between fingerings? Or something else…?
Cheers and late niiiiightsssss…
Armand
yes and no
I will leave it to someone more advanced to expound!
I think “tight” generally means stopping the reed momentarily between notes by covering all the toneholes for an instant. Some pipers get so fast they can play most of a tune in staccato rather than legato. Most pipers I know play a mixture of open and closed styles using the tight fingering for effects, like triplets.
The difference in fingering would only be related to which particular fingering gets (or keeps) the notes in tune. There’s several ways to finger most notes, but not all fingerings yield a perfectly in-trune instrument…depending on the chanter. Most chanters are made to be in tune by only opening one or two tones holes for the note (with chanter on knee), but some notes are still in tune using one hand (the upper) while playing the regulators with the other (lower hand).
Lorenzo wrote:
The difference in fingering would only be related to which particular fingering gets (or keeps) the notes in tune. There’s several ways to finger most notes, but not all fingerings yield a perfectly in-trune instrument…depending on the chanter. Most chanters are made to be in tune by only opening one or two tones holes for the note (with chanter on knee), but some notes are still in tune using one hand (the upper) while playing the regulators with the other (lower hand).
Lorenzo is right, Heather Clarke’s ‘The New Approach to Uilleann Piping’ has a couple of finger charts in the back for ‘open’ fingering and for ‘the chanter off the leg’ aswell as the fingering laid out throughout the book.Perhaps you could experiment with some of these. 
Hi,
I would strongly recommend anyone just starting to stick solely to the “standard” on the knee scale. Playing “legato”, but opening no more than two holes at ony one time, until they are completly at home with that fingering before experimenting with open fingerings, staccato notes, and off the knee scales.
I believe it is important to lay a strong foundation to your fingering and it is hard enough to begin with just one fingering system.
As for the original question, I think it can be a hazy area as open style players use tight triplets and vise versa. Tight players tend to play a certain proportion of quavers (melody notes) staccato and often certain combinations of staccato melody notes will give the game away.
Hope that’s some help
David
I would suggest it might be better to start of with closed fingerings, silencing the chanter between notes. It is the basic way for playing the pipes and learning that first gets you away from playing the chanter like a tinwhsitle, once you can more or less handle the non legato playing it is easy to open up again and blend different sounds. Added advantage, in my opinion, is that you’ll have a better control of the chanter when you’ve mastered the non legato playing.
I think the CD accompaniment with HC’s book perhaps confirms what Peter says but boy does it take a long time to get to grips with. One frequently ends up with what Ben Walker calls… 
‘THE DEATH GRIP’ 
Hi Peter and MAW,
I’m not, as yet, convinced by your suggestion that starting with the staccato scale is best for a beginner.
I must admit at this point to not having heard the Heather Clarke cd.
I would raise two points:
Firstly:
Unless I am badly mistaken most players, even tight pipers use legato movement between the majority of the notes they play.
To my mind that would make a legato scale the basic one.
I am not advocating an open scale but the one and two finger scale played legato.
Over the years of teaching I have had to “loosen up” pipers who are trying to play jigs and reels with silence between each note (I think they started via HC).
I hope I am not doing a diservice to uilleann piping but what percentage of uilleann pipers play like that?
Secondly:
This is one of the most difficult instruments to learn in the world.
Why put one of the highest fences in front of a beginner?
When learning anything people need something positive back for their work, which then encourages them on to the next stage.
A more legato start will make beginners feel positive about their progress. Hopefully increasing their progression and reducing the numbers that give up.
David
Only edited for spelling mishtakes
so the scale for playing legato would be the standard no more than one or two open holes or…?
By the way, thanks for the info, everyone!
Cheers,
Armand
Firstly i think it is utter rubbish and genuinely putting up fences stating that the pipes are the most difficult instrument in the world. They are an instrument like any other, learning the fiddle I find personally much harder and at that point we haven’t even begun to think of the technique needed to learn classical music at a decent level. Given a working set of pipes anyone can make a fair go at them.
In my experience teaching the pipes staring off in a non-legato style is perfectly rewarding to a beginner, it is a mistake to think there should be a long and definite silence between notes or that the notes should be clipped in any way, it’s just a matter of closing the chanter for a split second before opening it again for the next note. It’s not hard to learn when starting out, it’s hard to get into when you have started legato. You just place a higher fence a bit further up the road.
Yes. I agree David. (mostly) I don’t think the HC book advocates the single finger approach particularly. She does like her tight triplets and introduces them quite early on in the book.
I don’t think thats a bad thing per say. Infact I like to get students used to playing (or attempting) tight playing of the common triplets and not to shy away from playing them… Depending on the student and his or her capacity and abilities.
The legato scales and basic rolls etc. are crucial for the music to flow… and flow it must!
The most important thing in my mind is to keep a really firm grip on the rhythm of what you are doing and NEVER play anything out of time. even when learning (perhaps with the exception of slow airs)
And weather open, closed or whatever ridding one self of DEATH GRIP is what the learner should be aiming to achieve… Death Grip destroys the flow!
…it can destroy more than the flow…like tendons, joints, sanity.
The best exercise I learned to teach the correct finger pressure and overcome death grip due to anxiety and frustration was to learn the finger positions on a plastic drinking straw. If you’re crushing the straw, you’re holding too tightly.
I’m afraid I must second Peter’s point that learning tight fingering first is the best way to learn. Anyone can play legatto due to sloppiness, but if you set out with your goal being tight fingering, you will gain a habit that will carry you through all other styles and techniques on UPs. Timing is certainly a valid consideration, but not for rank beginners. Learn proper fingering first while learning the scales. Timing is for later when learning tunes.
djm
Sorry DJM, I must differ on opinion. Timing is the essence of music and I think must be the first consideration when learning ANY instrument.
even playing scales etc.
Even when learning at first do it very slowly but always in time.
Hi Peter,
Firstly, if you are going to quote me please do it accurately.
Secondly, I was in no way putting up fences I was trying to raise an issue in what I hope is a mature discussion between experienced players and teachers.
Would anyone like to say this is an easy instrument? Awareness of the task to be undertaken is only being realistic.
Whether the fence (tight playing) is higher or lower if left is I think a point for further discussion but we seem to agree it is an obstacle to overcome. The position of the high fence, at the beginning or further down the road is one of the choices a teacher has to make.
Clearly you feel strongly about this but I suspect that if we could hear what each other was talking about we may be closer than you think. This means of communication can be a difficult one to negotiate.
djm, I think equating legatto with sloppiness is a broad generalisation and sloppiness is the opposite of what I am suggesting.
David
Sloppiness is due to poor timing and rhythmic control. David rightly points out this is not due to legato playing. Infact if someone has poor rhythmic control it wouldn’t matter a jot if they played as tight or as open as you please. It would all sound crap!
I still don’t agree at all that the pipes are ‘one of the most difficult instruments in the world’ to learn. Any instrument is difficult to play well but as I said I for one find the fiddle much harder.
Non of the students I teach have any difficulty starting on non legato fingering and from there opening up later. Not a bother and I haven’t lost one yet.
Hi Peter,
I think we will have to agree to disagree.
But I am sure we both have the best interests of our students at heart.
David
I know that is not what you meant, but legatto is a phase on the road to tightness. It takes a long time to develop the response/reaction time required for tight fingering. That is why I suggest tight fingering to be the goal, rather than something to be learned separately. Kids pick this stuff up much faster, but late learners need to work at it.
djm
I think the main difference between tight and open playing styles is, the tight styles are rather tight, while the open styles are more open.
Royce