One last thread and then I’ll quit guys…I promise.
When I saw Paddy billed as the Jimi Hendrix of the pipes I thought to myself, “self, you gotta see him. He’ll make those pipes wail like a banshee. There’ll be visions before your eyes.” Afterwards someone asked me what I thought and I said he was the JS Bach of the pipes, not the Jimi Hendrix. To my ears he played the pieces brilliantly, but as if they were finger exercises. Since every second person at the place was a musician, and they all loved it, I assumed I was alone in my view. But in another thread I did see one vote on my side. I admire his skill, as I would the skill of a 200 wpm typist. But it’s just not very edifying to listen to. Anyone agree?
I don’t mean to go all “classical” on you, but speaking as someone who regularly plays Bach as well as Irish trad, I think you’re doing old Johann Sebastian a disservice. According to most of his contemporaries, Bach’s playing was anything but emotionless–read Christoph Wolff’s excellent (though dry) biography of JSB for some eye-(ear?)witness accounts…
PK is a perfectionist, no doubt about it (I’ve never yet seen him really happy about a live performance), but I don’t think his virtuosity eclipses his musicianship, most of the time. Yes, he tends to play jigs and reels very fast, but hey, it’s because he CAN. Most of us, if we played the speed Paddy often plays, would completely lose all sense of phrasing, but he still manages to make musical sense, even at breakneck speed. I think the real proof of the pudding is in his airs, though…I’m not trying to claim that he’s the absolute best interpreter of slow airs on the pipes, but if you listen to him play an air (i.e. “Roisin Dubh” on the “Doublin’” album), it’s certainly not lacking in emotional content.
I think most of the fault can be placed on the recordings…modern recording standards are such that many pipers (Paddy, Eoin O Riabhaigh, Jerry O’Sullivan) are now producing albums that are almost artificially “clean.” But that’s a topic for a whole different thread… 
Back in March I had quite a long chat with Finbar Furey at a do in London.What he said was quite interesting.Finbar hailed as the “Prince of Pipers” and was famously quoted as playing as fast as he did “because I can”.I asked him how he was getting on these days with his playing and he said he was playing better than ever before.I asked him about his breakneck speed and he said that was the “exuberance of youth” and he certainly doesnt play like that today,and his playing is better for it.I was quite impressed by his sincerity(he also offered to buy my O’Mealy set on the spot but thats another story)point is that speed doesn’t necessarily equate with pleasantness to the ear.I really do not like Paddys Style that is not to say I do not admire his expertise.
There are quite a few excellent pipers who I know personally who far excell Paddy but who do not suffer his God Like status which he seems to attract in America
Slan go foill
Liam
“There are quite a few excellent pipers who I know personally who far excell Paddy but who do not suffer his God Like status which he seems to attract in America”
Hello Liam,
Which pipers do you have in mind?
I can’t think of any pipers who, in my estimation, far outclass Paddy Keenan
Would it be fair to say that you rate these other players as superior because they play in a style that you prefer?
Regards,
john
[ This Message was edited by: john on 2002-09-14 11:57 ]
I recently saw both Keenan and Furey at a piper’s club, and I thought that Paddy far outclassed Finbar. It was evident that he hadn’t practised and it sounded like he was playing too fast for himself. This was also true of the time I saw him about a year ago. However his banjo playing was impressive and expressive.
In my opinion, Paddy’s playing certainly doesn’t lack expression - and also the music of JSBach is often played badly ie as an exercise rather than a piece of music. This is also true of other composers such as Kriesler.
Jo.
[ This Message was edited by: Jo C on 2002-09-14 13:57 ]
On my original post I should have added that I’ve been a huge Bach fan since about 17 years of age (33 years ago.)
I’ll join the fray because I sorta agree with E=Fb.
Sorta, but here are the caveats.
If there’s a piper whose technique is excellent but whose style, in my opinion, is, well, somewhat sterile, I think it’s Liam O’Flynn. His piping is, well, close to perfect. No clunks, generally, or anything of the kind. I think others have claimed (before me) that his “cleaning up” of the style may single-handedly be responsible for the upswell in interest in the pipes from the non-Irish-trad-playing-or-educated community. Let’s face it, if someone squeaks on a clarinet or oboe, we’d think they sucked. If someone fails an octave shift on the pipes, or a note skirls, we accept it and think of it as a part of the instrument. But we hold ourselves to a different benchmark.
I digress. E=Fb, take a listen to some older Keenan stuff, like his really nice recording of Garrett Barry’s and Bucks of Oranmore on some old Bothy Band live record. Squeals and chunks and clunks, and VERY passionate playing. I think he’s just gotten even better over the years and his piping reflects it. I don’t know about his pipes, but maybe he’s using newer techniques on his reeds to make them more responsive or something. Anyway, I don’t think he’s as “sterile” as O’Flynn.
The classic example of “real” piping would, of course, be Seamus Ennis, whose recordings definitely have all that stuff that makes a pipe recording sound gritty. I don’t think anyone, anyone at all, can play the regs like he could.
But maybe there are more important questions. Like, why is it that there have to be squeaks and growls for it to be a good pipe performance? What if O’Flynn and Keenan are the best pipers, simply because their playing is so consistent? I don’t like to squeak, but I do, sometimes.
Maybe I better put on a Kevlar vest.
Stuart
Stuart Hall: this is
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[ This Message was edited by: sturob on 2002-09-15 15:05 ]
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Piping and pipers we like or don’t think much of is personal taste. I love Paddys piping. I also love O’Flyns Piping. Ronan Browne , Clancy, Seamus Ennis , Who ever. Leo Rickard is a handy piper too. The point is: many different styles and idiosyncracies in the different pipers, I think highly of them all.They all have something to give to uilleann piping.
I have heard some pipers who perhaps on reflection engaged in employ of a different nature i.e. reapairing washing machienes etc.
may well be typo’s- crap at spelling
Ben, that’s the part that amazes me… great pipers who can’t sustain a living by piping. So true with many musicians.
I don’t see Paddy Moloney’s name (Chieftains) cropping up in this thread. Anyone like to comment on his playing?
I first saw Paddy play at Willie Clancy week in 1997.
He followed Ciaran O’Maille on the concert schedule. Ciaran, I’ve always thought, is a piper that is very good, very crisp, and a pleasure to hear.
When Paddy came on, the music went right to the other end of the spectrum - I felt I was in that electronics’ ad - the one where the guy is sitting in a chair in front of a set of large speakers, and his hair and all are like they’re being blown away. That’s how I felt - just blown away - almost as if Paddy were up there to see how much force we in the audience could take.
A few years’ later, he was here in Colorado for a concert.
Complete opposite of the Miltown experience. The room was smaller, to be sure, maybe 75 or 80 people in attendance, and he was accompanied by … a guitarist -his name escapes me at the moment, although he’s a well-known name. But the music was totally different.
Neither was better than the other, mind you -his music at each event was special in its own right. But the fact that he can deliver so much force in once go and then bring a soothing atmosphere to another is, in my opinion, the mark of an incredibly talented musician.
Comparisons to Bach or anyone else – it’s not fair.
To Johann or to Paddy.