slowair, you have been playing the whistle for 4 years. Obviously you have learned a tremendous amount—I listened to your clips. Think of how much more you will know in 8 years or 12 years! Four years is not a terribly long time to have played any instrument that I know of. As you say yourself, you are not a professional musician. No one would be after 4 years of playing. That does not mean you don’t have the ability, i.e. the potential, but you don’t have the experience yet. How many of us here do? Yes, it could hurt to find out one doesn’t sound like a professional, but when you sit down and think about it you have to say “But I sound good for my level of experience and I just don’t have the years of experience yet. There’s no way I could sound like a professional yet.” I think you yourself made a similar very realistic appraisal of your playing. I think your emotions got the best of you, which happens to us all from time to time, especially when we have invested a lot of ourselves into something.
And Peter is just saying that to show the real capability of a whistle, a professional musician playing in the style most potential customers are interested in would be a good idea. That remark is just to do with selling whistles and is not personal to you and has nothing to do with being Irish. I thought the remark was made tactfully, he said he was speaking of a number of websites. It really was not a personal remark to you. He does need to be honest and I don’t think he could have said this in any other way.
It is the same as with website design. I believe one person said that he had hired you as a professional designer rather than to do it himself because he wanted to show his product in the best setting possible. You, as a professional website designer, were able to help him do that. He might have great potential in that area, but as of the moment he is still learning. And he was very pleased with the result. I think it is the same with the sound clips. So maybe you could look at it that way.
I myself, barely being able to get a note out of the thing, would prefer to hear a professional in an unenhanced (that really drives me insane) sound clip so I know how the whistle sounds at its very best. Others feel differently, so that’s okay.
FWIW, I selected most of the players and selections on the site myself. So they would be players I consider worth listening to. Interestingly, with the exception of Mary Bergin (whose clips were selected by SteveJ by the way), none of these players are (or were, quite a few of them are now dead) full time ‘professional’ players.
Okay, I’ll change that to “as good as they come”. And I’m sure there are many others who could fit in that category—keeping all our bases covered here. Or maybe not, kinell (thank you Steve Shaw), I don’t know. But they should have been getting paid full time for their music if they wanted to.
I guess I do remember now that Peter has made some transcriptions of the music there. I don’t know Peter. I sure as heck don’t know the whistle players. There is no conspiracy here.
I have read bits about almost all of these players in various books, so they are highly regarded by a number of people.
This might be a good time to say something about whistles, webs and soundclips.
First of all, you’re damned if you don’t.
Then on the other hand, if you do, there are a great number of problems. Which player/s? Which style/s? Which tunes, how many? How much will the sound clip section affect the constraints of the website? What is the quality of the speakers upon which it will eventually be played?
Please consider the logistics of trying to get a number of sample whistles to prospective players whose reputations precede them and who use different styles, and then negotiate with them to do a quality recording for your site. Not on! The result of course is an exercise which reduces the soundclip section to its very basic minimum. Essentially it is one person playing a whistle in their own particular style. The microphone might not have been the best, the style of playing might not be your favourite, you might not like the tune and you may have tinny speakers, but realistically thats all you are going to get in an introductory website. Result, damned again.
Of course, what indeed is the value of a soundclip to a prospective? Probably very little. You can’t feel the way a whistle responds to your own lips and fingers by listening to a soundclip, no matter who the player is. That’s the sort of thing that you need to experience yourself and no amount of listening to soundclips will provide the experience.
When a few whistles are out there, they will speak for themselves. Until then what we have is what we have. I hope you get a chance to play one soon.
Oh, and prices! Because of international variations, prices will vary somewhat from country to country and to publish a single price would be misleading. Suffice to say that these are indeed high end whistles, but not outrageously so. Things are moving a little quicker than I had anticipated, but the retailers listed all have shipments either with them or on the way, and I beg your patience while we all get up to speed in these early days.
Well, I guess I was thinking more of illustrating the level of the players than the quality of the sound----recordings made on the spot by someone trying to catch a performance---- which would not be so good for selling whistles. Point well taken. Maybe that’s why Peter didn’t mention it. I’ve listened there but it was for a different purpose and I really didn’t remember the rough sound I guess because I was blown away by the whistle playing. Yep, anyway enough said here I reckon. Forward march!
Seeing as Peter’s first comment here was not aimed at one site but in “general” I have created a topic here at the C&F pub where Mary and her little lamb AND anyone else, including Clare and her Monty, can go and discuss GENERALLY the merits of sound clips on makers’ websites.
About the sound clips, I don’t think it has anything to do with style. It’s the crude playing of a beginner, with no depth in the technique. Which means that it’s really hard to hear what the whistle can really do when it’s played a little faster, with some octave switching and ornaments. I found out that some whistles are more sensitive to some ornaments and not as stable under more aggressive playing. Having a good musician who can has good control of breath pressure and technique would give me a better idea of what the whistle can do and can sound like if you can play the thing.
I’m not trying to put slowair down for fun, I just don’t see from a business strategy point of view why the maker didnt send the whistle to some advanced whistle player and kindly ask for a few clips (and feedback!), this is what I would have done.
Also, I heard the “I will play the style I want” sentence so many times. I don’t understand why you would play the whistle like a recorder if you could actually play on a recorder. I mean, if you’re going to tongue every note and sound like a midi file, at least do it on a recorder, on which it’s easier to play in “foreign” keys and might be better tuned. Dance music, like irish music, is meant to have a lift in it, some swing that makes people want to dance on it. I don’t get it. If I love Bethoven that much, I’m going to learn classical music and play it the way it was meant to be played, I won’t try to play Bethoven with rolls and cuts as a reel.
This whole thread could have been easily avoided if those who had a complaint contacted the owner of the business, instead of publicly critizing the offered sound clips.
How a person plays a whistle is how THEY play a whistle. If you don’t like it, don’t listen.
Perhaps my way of playing whistle is crude to you, but I believe your comments will come across as crude to far more.
Some people seem to forget that just because others appear in black and white print before you, that there are human beings on the other end and that they have feelings very capable of being hurt by your comments.
I’d say more, but my grandmother always told me that if you didn’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
This has been a real learning experience.
I thought your playing was fine. You’d be welcome in our sessions anytime you might happen to be in the area!
I wouldn’t worry any more about negative comments from the board. They are going to happen anytime someone has the guts to try to use their playing for anything real.
Just keep on keepin’ on. What is said about your playing on the boards has absolutely zero impact in the real world.
I find this surprising, in light of the fact that you called me for whistle advice and then proceeded to put me down and make fun of me for having posted personal pictures on the forum.
I do think sound clips make or break a sale. When I heard Blayne Chastain’s recording of the Lon Dubh, I knew I had to have one. When I heard this recent recording of the Black Diamond (and I didn’t know who had recorded it), I knew I didn’t need one.
You may get more satisfaction from holding your head over a toilet and inhaling deeply than bringing your stirring stick to the board for a thrill. Snide comments purely for the sake of provocation? What’s the point.
Yes, it will. It’s always been like that. Alas, I prefer to live in a world where truths are said, even if it’s about me. I think that when you post clips online and then mix the stuff with Chiff & Fipple, you should be able to face the music. Some can’t, and see people like me as evil beings unleashed on Chiff to wreak havoc. That’s a good way to react, when you’re not ready to realize things about your own playing.
By the way I think you did a good job with the website, the information is easy to get and it works well, for a whistle site anyway.
But they should have been getting paid full time for their music if they wanted to.
