I watched this film yesterday for the first time.
What an incredibly beautiful film. The use of color is unlike anything else i’ve seen. Even without understanding Chinese, the many layers of meaning in the story are fascinating, as is the plot, where the “point” is not winning or losing, but giving your life for the right reasons.
If you haven’t seen it yet, get it today.
A question, maybe for someone who is Chinese or knows more about martial arts movies than i do: there was a lot of flying in this movie too, similar to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and some Matrix-like stuff. There are times when the flying stuff contributes to the beauty of the film, but other times i was wishing they’d just let the actors do their stuff. So the question: is there any special meaning to “the flying thing” in these Chinese movies, or is it just something that people started doing because it looks cool?
My girlfriend (who didn’t need to read the English subtitles) says it’s a takeoff from Chinese novels. The ‘flying thing’ exists. Perhaps, not as ‘over the top’ as in the movie.
Glauber - In the very early Chinese martial arts flicks (e.g., 'Five Fingers of Death") and those that used to be on channel 5 on Saturday afternoons, characters would more jump than fly over tree tops - only problem was in some cases you actually see the corners of the trampolines. I think the style and effects have grown so that the flying is more elegant and fluid, but still represents the unbounded skills that could be attained through total dedication and training - transcending what we usually think of as within human capabilities. Perhaps a physical manifestation of the spirit. You know, the protagonist takes a whipping, goes into the woods or mountains, punches trees and bags of sand, and returns as the super hero. Although I’ve always enjoyed these parts, they are really a bit unrealistic - effective training requires somebody else moving, evading, and countering.
To me Crouching Tiger was overrated and when people start flying around I just can’t suspend disbelief and the story gets silly. I rather see Segal beat people up in the street with real hard logical Aikido moves. I can suspend disbelief for the Tolkein Trilogy because everything makes sense within that context. Hero, though, was surprisingly beautiful and frankly I didn’t expect it to be so good with Jet Li because he hasn’t made good movies .
Hopefully, I’ll see House of Flying Daggers this week.
The Chinese are making some really fine movies lately. A non martial arts movie, Infernal Affairs, is one of the finest movies I’ve seen in a long time. No flying people, just great character development and plot lines with superb acting. ALso has an ending that is true to the Asian sensibility but leaves us westerners a bit unsatisfied. It’s the first of a trilogy and Scorsece is planning an American version (I hate when they do that). The original French La Femme Nakita was a wonderful raw piece of movie making - with Anne Parillaud believable as a hired instinctive killer. The remake - Point of No Return with Bridget Fonda, fell far short. Jean Reno as the “cleaner” was so much more believable and natural than Harvey Keitel in the remake. When they go for the big names, they ruin a lot of films.
I know we did the remake thing in an earlier thread. The Magnificent Seven was a great western, but still short of the classic Kurasawa The Seven Samurai. I guess you could take each on its own merits though; here the name actors worked - Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen, James Coburn, Charles Bronson, Robert Vaughn, Horst Bucholtz, and number 7.
A chianti and McCallan induced ramble… 
Philo
Yes. The original “Shall we dance” was a great little movie. I don’t even care to see the Richard Gere version.
I’ll put “Infernal Affairs” and “Flying Daggers” in the list of movies to see.
I was amazed how good Hero was. I felt sorry for the fellow who kept getting killed over and over tho. 
Another great movie I saw recently, tho a completely different genre, was Donnie Darko. I tend to like movies that need to be seen multiple times to figure them out.
Also, has anyone seen the movie Ronin with Robert DeNiro and Jean Reno?
Caj
Funny thing about Hero - it seems to be beautiful and meaningful to someone with “Western” or Western-influenced sensibilities, but may be less impressive to people brought up on traditional Chinese wuxia/martial arts movies or novels (say, before the late 1970s, when such movies became more and more abt SFX/wire work/cool blockbuster-y but improbable set-piece fights/stunts) .
I liked it a lot, as did people I know of my generation. I liked the way it was filmed, and how the story unfolded. I thought plotwise, it was more cogent, made more sense and was much more cleverly worked out than most of the Hong kong gongfu movies or TV serials I’ve watched (mainly those from 1980s onwards), though the fighting didn’t impress me that much precisely because I have watched all those other movies and serials.
My parents (whom I would consider part of the 2nd group I describe above) thought it was ok, but didn’t see why people (“western” critics, reviewers, etc) thought it was the bees’ knees.
My boss, who had a traditional CHinese-school education, just saw it as Zhang Yimou sucking up to the Chinese govt. She didn’t think it was that great otherwise.
It was the same impression I got with Crouching Tiger - my friends and I thought it was quite cool, as did the Western/English-language press, but those used to older wuxia movies or novels didn’t see what was so wonderful about it.
I was thinking about that, that maybe the reason these Chinese movies started making it big in the Western market is that they figured out a formula that works in this market (which may not necessarily work in China).
The music in Hero uses Itzhak Perlman and Koto, and of course it was spectacular, but probably not very Chinese.
CAj - Ronin was really good. Jean Reno, of La Femme Nakita, also did an interesting movie with Natalie Portman and Gary Oldman as a pill popping bad narcotics cop; “The Professional” directed by Luc Besson.
In the vein of films you need to see more than once, try one of my all time favorites (I haven’t found many who either saw or liked this one) by the Coen Brothers, Miller’s Crossing. There’s one, among many, unforgettable scene with Albert Finney in his bathrobe chomping on a cigar and hefting a machine gun…
Hey, does this mean we have to petition Dale for a third discrete Board, for movie discussions?
Philo
I got it for Xmas. IMHO the wire work is way overdone and gets a bit old. Also Quentin Tarentino plugging his name onto it didn’t add to the attraction. He is one of my least favorite directors 
Cheers,
David