Hi,
I’ve read the Cocobolo wood is part of the Rosewood family. I’ve also noticed that many makers use Cocobolo in the sets. Given that rosewood has a bad reputation, (i.e. harps, highland bagpipes), for cracking, warping, etc,is there a concern in purchasing uilleann pipes that are made from cocobolo? Is cocobolo more stable than rosewood?
I can’t speak for Cocobolo, but I heard somewhere (was it this board?) that the old makers (19th century) used Boxwood quite frequently. Boxwood isn’t as stable as some other hardwoods, and WAS prone to splitting etc. so many makers switched to blackwood.
Now, when I spoke with Seth Gallagher, I asked hom about his wood of choice. HE said he prefers ebony hands down. Now, as I’ve heard it explained, ebony and blackwood are two different woods. Ebony is supposed to be MUCH more stable.
Can anyone here back this up? At any rate, Seth mentioned he’d never had a single set crack due to temp./humidity changes when made in ebony. Living in a desert, this was VERY important to me!
So I’ll just throw that out, and see if anyone else can either confirm or deny it! 
B~
i am just relating what i’ve heard the"experts" say,they seem to like instrument grade cocobolla alot,they like the african blackwood but seems to take muuch longer to stabalize,it seems that the blackwood is especially prefered for wet blown pipes,most do not recomend ebony.i have a blackwood chanter and am very happy so far,if i ever ordered another,say in C,i think i would go with the cocobolla,as i feel it is an excellant choice,and just for the sake of variety.i believe most oboes and basoons are of cocobolla,i would think the most important thing is how and how long it was seasoned and how the maker treated it from its first boring on.cheers,tansy
Jamie,
The only negative things I’ve heard about Cocobolo is it sometimes causes allergic reactions when the wood is being worked. Without proper filtermasks you may have respiratory discomfort. Long sleeves and gloves are recommended when woodturning as some experience posion ivy like symptoms when sanding or handling the freshly cut pieces.
Brian is correct that many sets made in earlier generations were of Boxwood. It has some ‘mystique’ as far sound qualities go, but many pipemakers won’t use it even after it’s been seasoned for seven years !!
Pipemakers are still using fruitwoods (like pearwood) possibly because it’s more stable than Boxwood yet posses great sound qualities and awesome beauty. For an example of this see Rogge’s website:
http://www.uilleann-pipes.de/
or pipeworks:
http://www.bagpipeworks.com/
There’s no question that Ebony is a pipemaker’s choice, but it also makes for a slightly brighter sounding instrument.
Which brings me back to my original question…'Is blackwood and ebony the same thing???"
B~
No… Ebony and Blackwood are different
Ebony
http://www.wood-worker.com/woods/ebony.htm
http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/ebony_african.htm
and
Blackwood
http://www.lumber-source.com/Grenadillo.htm
http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/blackwood_african.htm
Nice! Thanks Tony! That does help me to clear my head at least!
B~
Tansy,
I did some research about materials used in bassoons and oboes.
To my suprise, many bassoons are made from Maple. I confirmed this with a bassoon repairman. It may have to do with the weight of the wood versus strength. Many guitar necks are made from Maple as it’s strong and resists warping.
Most ‘student’ oboes are of a plastic bakelite material but some I’ve found on eBay appeared to be ebony.
Hullo All, interesting forum this,
Cocobolo is a rosewood. There are heaps of species of rosewood, this being the botanical genus Dalbergia. African Blackwood is one of these rosewoods: Dalbergia Melanoxylon. It has been the substance of choice for wood woodwinds and the GHB for quite some time, since it has natural oils that resist splitting, cracking, and of course long exposure to moisture. Ebony has always had its own cachet, though: I’ve heard it said that the old GHB makers would use ebony for homebought pipes, and blackwood for those made for export.
Like I mentioned, there are many rosewoods, perhaps 60-odd. Most are rare, and Dalbergia Nigra, Brazilian Rosewood, once the most favored wood for guitar fingerboards, is now almost extinct. Blackwood is becoming harder to aquire, too, and an attempt to plant some 2 million trees in Tanzania and Mozambique was largely a failure.
Blackwood, in continental Europe, is very often called…ebony. Ebony is of the genus Diospyros, family Ebenecae, as is the persimmon tree of the American south. I’ve been told by very knowledgable sources that ebony is one of the most unstable woods when seasoning (drying out prior to working), but is stable enough when fully dry, and as proof I own a chanter by Taylor of ebony, made perhaps over a hundred years ago, that hasn’t a crack in it.
Cocobolo is quite touchy: piles of seasoning wood have been known to spontaneously combust, that is, explode, and a friend of mine turned into a 300 pound pizza after making a chanter of the stuff.
For aesthetics I’m more attracted to plain black, yellow, orange, or brown wood. You ought to know what your pipes will look like in the end: Cocobolo is a very “flash” wood, lots of stripes. Nothing beats ebony, silver, and ivory, for me. Kind of a tuxedo bagpipes, maybe.
Kevin Rietmann
“KLR… a-ha… a-ha… KLR is gonna rock ye”
How goes it up dere den? Are you migrating South to LA for the Robbie Hannan weekend?
http://www.concentric.net/~pdarcy/page1/page1.shtml
Should be a “hoot”! How is the monster set going?
Talk to you soon,
Patrick.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick D’Arcy on 2001-11-08 12:43 ]
Hi all, sorry about the username. Sounds like one of those ultra hostile rappers who’s still releasing music 6 years after being gunned down…
Wish I could be in LA for the big show. Someone bring a camcorder! Maybe you could digitally edit Robbie’s lecture, keep the pitch steady but slow him down. He needs some lithium or switch to decaf or somethin’ I dunno what!
See you all in Seattle. Unless I don’t go. Or you don’t show up. See my new post for query regarding this, also. IF I go, get a load of the big set. It’s big. Sounds scrumdillyishes, too!
Hi diddly-doo ya!
Kevin Rietmann
“Boxwood isn’t as stable as some other hardwoods, and WAS prone to splitting etc. so many makers switched to blackwood.”
Boxwood wasn’t prone to splitting, but it was prone to warping. The main reason it was dropped as a flute wood, as I understand it, was that it was very time consuming to use. The wood had to be aged at least ten years after felling before it could be used,
and then the flute had to be made in very slow careful stages to allow for the warping of the wood. Often after a lot of work, the would-be flute would have to be discarded because of it!
BTW boxwood makes flutes of beautiful clear sound, and I have gotten the impression that Blackwood replaced boxwood more for convenience than anything else.
[ This Message was edited by: nickb on 2001-11-22 07:02 ]
First time posting here and don’t want
to offend anyone but there’s a lot of
hogwash on this particular tread. None
of the woods mentioned are unstable or
stable in absolute terms even though
the different woods have different characteristics, in particular specific
density. However, they are all suitable for wind instruments. What’s important is aging,
drying, selecting, and properly working
the particular wood for an instrument and
the amount of care a player gives his
instrument and these are all human
elements. For instance,a number of the most reputable flute and recorder makers in the world successfully use boxwood today and
some have done so for over 150 years. Why?
Because they know about wood. How to
select, work, care for it, etc. Wood is
“Organic” and varies even by sections of
the same tree and even more so from
tree to tree. Hope this helps illuminate
some things.
Kelhorn Mike
No offense taken, but the information I posted came from pipemakers… Like Martin Prewhaw and Ray Sloan. Most makers only buy pre-seasoned wood from reliable sources. They themselves don’t process the large pieces but rather buy select billets in small quanities and keep for a few years as they continue to season. Even when pre-cut billets pass all visual inspection, they often have hidden defects that only appear durring the turning process. If you’re lucky you can use the off cuts for smaller components… often they go in a scrap pile. The preference seems to be ebony then blackwood and cocobolo.
Not all woods work the same, that’s a given and I don’t believe pipemakers are any less competent working boxwood, but flutes and recorders are generally made in shorter segments. So, if there’s movement in the Boxwood, it won’t be so apparent in a 3 piece flute than in a single piece Uilleann chanter.
Agreed ??
I think I’d like to try a boxwood chanter. I can’t seem to talk elbogo out of his, so I’m thinking that I’d like to have one custom made, or see if anyone has one, by a reputable maker, that they would consider parting with, or loaning/renting for a while…(a long shot, I know)
Since it’s sunday, and I am “off the clock”…I think that rather than add to the constructive, informative aspect of this thread…I will interject something entirely different!
…I seem to recall hearing a story about a pipemaker …won’t mention names…the story HAS been corroborated and verified…who made a flute from cocobolo..only to find (during the final tuning process) that he had developed an allergic reaction…his lips swelled to enormous proportions!
He then proceeded to the restroom to wash his hands lest the reaction spread…unfortuneately, he unthinkingly proceeded to utilize the other facilities in the washroom BEFORE washing his hands…much to his horror and great pain..other “items” began to swell…rather unnaturally.
Yow!! Who needs Spanish fly?
A similar thing discomfort-wise happened one day (long ago) when I was cutting up jalapeños…and I had washed my hands! Not fun, not fun at all.
Geez, sounds like everything in Minnesota is just swell! 
djm
Reminds me of a similar story I heard about somone with poison oak. 
Nano, what’s even worse is getting a little hot sauce on your finger while eating at a Mexican restaurant, then wiping your eyes.
You know it. It’s no surprise that local emergency rooms are swelled beyond capacity; we’re always endangering ourselves with putty, toothpaste, and paper. Must be something in the water…