G’day Folks,
My Musical Theory is pretty limited,so maybe someone can help me with an answer..
The way I see things is that the notes in the Major scale have a corresponding Chord.For example the C major scale.
C D E F G A B C…and the Chord Scale would be …Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Aminor Bdiminished Cmaj …
I’m wondering if there would be corresponding Chords for a Chromatic Scale,starting on C and finishing on C..an octave up ?..is there such a thing as a Chromatic Chord Scale ? What would the chords be ?
I hope this question makes sense
…
Best wishes from OZ…weedie…
Hm… that’s a good question. I’d assume there
wouldn’t be, since that progression is built on
the idea that each of those chords leads into
another of the chords in that progression, and
if you use a chord outside that scale, you’ve
modulated into another key. So it seems like
a chromatic scale progression would seem like
you were constantly modulating. But considering
the crazy stuff Coltrane and T. Monk pulled off,
maybe it exists.
Usually, the basic chords will relate to the 1, 4, and 5 in the scale.
In the key of D, for example, the scale is 1=D,2=E,3=F#,4=G,5=A,6=B,7=C#,8=D, so the usual chords would be D,G and A.
Key of G= GABCDEF#G, so chords are G,C and D.
… or I could be missing your point, altogether.
I’m sure that I am!
He’s scalin’ but he ain’t keyin’
course if he’d pass that thing I’d probably come up with somethin’
Thanks people…
I know of the 1-4-5 thing…as in 12 bar blues = 1st 4th 5th …as in many folk/pop/country/everything ! songs ..
I suppose I’m thinking that if there is such a thing as a chromatic chord scale,maybe it would be useful to an accompanist (me) when he comes across an accidental in a tune…as well as that,I’m just curious about it ..
I know that if I play the following chords..C major D minor E minor F major G major A minor B diminished C major ,then I will have the do re mi fah so la ti do (sp?) etc. scale …only they’ll be chords and not single notes …
So perhaps there is a chord for ALL of the notes ?.. C to C …just wonderin’ …
Denny,you’re a cryptic chap innit
I’m still trying to figure out your reply ! …
yes, exactly ![]()
Typically the chords that are most closely associated with the Chromatic Scale are fully diminished 7th chords. Of which there are only 3, C Eb Gb Bb, C# E G B, & D F Ab Cb. After that you simply come into other inversions of one of these three. Fully diminished 7th chords have an un usually “unstable” sound to them that allow pivoting to almost any key from any key with a natural sounding resolution. Similarly, the chromatic scale (giving equal weight to all 12 tones), will allow the same sort of melodic freedom. Fun to play with.
I think for your purposes, you can leave aside anything which, theoretically, is “associated with the Chromatic Scale”.
Starting with a blank sheet of paper, a chromatic scale isn’t, necessarily in itself, in any one key. This means that, on any degree of the scale, you could put any triad - major, minor, diminished, augmented, or indeed, non-triad chords - and, depending on context, they may be “right”.
So, if you have an accidental in a tune in, say, C, you’ll have to know the context to be able to put the right chord on it. However, there are some very basic tips which may help. I’ll try a table (not good at these) with some common accidentals which might be expected to occur in a piece which is basically in the key of C. (Note that this assumes that the accidental note is a prominent note of harmonic importance, and not just a passing note for melodic purposes only):
Accidental Key headed to Likely chord
F# G D7 (or D)
Bb F Bb (or, sometimes, Gmin)
C# D A7 (or A)
G# Amin E7 (or E)
D# Emin B7 (or B)
Every other accidental is possible, and even the above accidentals may imply moving to different keys from those shown, but the above seem the most likely to me, assuming we start in the key of C.
There are other variables too, eg idiom. Putting chords to something which is basically in Western tonal idiom (classical or pop) will be different from putting chords to Irish stuff.
Please tell me if this is what you were thinking of, or if I’m way off the mark …
I take it you don’t have a life if you are using it to figure out Denny’s comments:)
well! aren’t we superior!
little Pammy’s got a life ![]()
Hi weedie,
The answer is already there (can be easily deduced from) in the information you have and in Denny’s comment.
For instance you already know that you are interested in three main types of chord triads:
the major, the minor and diminished (there are other types, more complex but we are not dealing with that here). Lets look at chord from B. In the C scale you have B dim. In the B major scale you would have B (major) chord and in the B minor scale B minor chord.
From that we can logically deduce that every note is capable of being the root of either a minor, major or diminished chord. Right? Are you with me? As to what the default chord for it is will depend on the scale its in. Thats where Denny’s comment comes in.
To be continued …
cryptic, septic … some kind’a tic
Why will the key signature or the key scale determine what type of chord is possible?
My way of understanding this is to
- know the interval formula for each chord type, and
- how those interval relationships can be had in any scale
Major chord triad = a note we call the root, the perfect 5th, and the middle note between them. You know this already. What is important is knwoing what makes something a perfect 5th etc.
The perfect 5th is (for our simple purpose here and without getting into just versus ET intonation niceties), in keyboard perspective, any note 7 semitones from you reference note.
That means that the middle note between them can be either at 3rd semitone from the root or at 4th semitone from it. Right? If you pick the middle note with the higher interval (major) you have a major chord and if you pick the middle note with the lower interval you have a minor chord.
We can write these chords as 1 3 5 for the major
and 1 b3 5 for the minor which spells the follwoing interval relations (in semitones):
0+4+3 = 7 for the major and 0+3+4=7 for the minor.
TBC …
Meanwhile a diminished chord does not have a perfect 5th.
The 5th in its triad is not a perfect 5th (the one that is the perfect harmony) but is actually an augmented 4th. For modern theory purposes that note is referred to as diminished 5 meaning that the perf, 5th is lessend by a semitone, only six semitones from the root. We can write a dim chord as
1 b3 b5 and in semitones it signifies 0+3+3=6
Now, lets look at denny’s contribution.
Given that any note will only obtain certain chord possibilities according to where it falls in a particular scale, the question of KEY is very relevant to your very broad question, the subject of your topic.
This is because, if you think it through, you will recognise that in any group of notes of a major scale (and therefore its modes as well) it is only possible to have 3 of the 7 notes that can be the root of chord that goes 1 3 5 and 3 others that can be the root of 1 b3 5 leaving one to be root in the 1 b3 b5 chord.
sigh
tomorrow…lunatic
So to simply want an answer to what simple chord triad an “accidental” can take will depend on
- if you want it to harmonise as much as possible with the mainstream of the piece, which of the notes that are not accidental can be part of the chord
- if you care to obtain another, innovative effect, you may depart from the mainstream scale and allow the accidental to hijack the piece for the time being and create a chord with accidental as root without considering wheteher any of those notes are from the mainstream scale.
Lets say we have a passing or accidental F in what would be a G major piece (with mostly F#).
Ordinarily the 7th (F#) can only form a dim. chord but with it flattened(with F)you will see you can form nice F major chord using the other notes already in the key signature (namely A and C) for F A C namely, 1 3 5.
The last of my points in this series is this:
When you are working in any key signature:
the accidental that is the flattened version of the leading note will always obtain a major chord (using the other notes in the key scale) (as in example with F# and F above)
every other accidental will obtain a dim. chord (using other notes from the key scale).
Oh, this last point also is not from a book.
I worked it out myself from theoretical and practical experience at hand.
Others can logically come to the same conclusion, if its useful to them.
In terms of ITM with the usual G or D key signatures the practical short cut distillation is this:
G key: all accidentals will be dim chords except for F which can be major chord
D key: all accidentals will be dim chords except for C which can be major chord
Of course all choices depend on what you wish to acheieve and I have focussed on “in key” chordation (new word?) ![]()
Good Luck with that and I am sorry if my detailed attempt is a bit clumsy.
weedie, I have sincerely tried to be of assistance in those detailed series of posts.
Had I been minded to answer your question succintly and with less effort I could have simply and correctly said,
The chord progressions for a chromatic scale are
C/Cm/Cdim; C#/C#m/C#dim; D/Dm/Ddim; etc (ie. repeating this for every semitone in sequence) …
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Thanks very much for your detailed response folks.. and to you Talasiga for the last few chapters…
There sure is some 'heavy mathematics ’ happening here
. and I’ll need to study all this with Guitar in hand to hear it …
All of the replies made me realise how Musically illiterate I am
.. I admire people who really understand the Theory side of Music…I reckon I’d know about 1/10th of what there is to know…
Mind you,I’ve been in and out of Pub Bands for the last 30 years or so,playing the Electricity Guitar (Blues/Rock/Originals) and for the last 10 years playing Flute,Whistle and Bouzouki in Irish Trad…so maybe we dont NEED a whole lot of the Theory ??? …I wish I knew more though,maybe when the house moving is over ,I can get into it a little bit more..
Thanks again amigos…weedie…