Celtic session etiquette-Does it exist?

Irish Flute
1

Hi everyone,

I have a question about session etiquette. Are most Celtic music sessions pretty much of a free-for-all, with very little supervision? The reason that I ask this is that I have a customer who wants a very loud Irish flute. In the current session that he is trying to play in, his wooden Irish flute is being totally drowned out by three accordion players and two concertina players, all playing at once, I presume. My PVC large bore low D flute is pretty loud, but not that loud. What kind of advice should I give this person?

Personally, when I had the choice, I preferred to play in groups that we called the “slow jam”, which was really for beginners. At least in this group there weren’t dominant personalities who wanted to call the tunes and play their loud instruments on every tune. The “slow jam” was more egalitarian and better suited to my quieter personality. We often played tunes from a tune book, and we took tunes calling the tunes that we wanted the group to learn and play. There is something nice about “beginner’s mind”.

Best wishes,
Doug Tipple

2

Hello, Doug,

here is a summary that i like:
http://www.murphyroche.com/Our_Sessions.htm
(see the links for musicians and spectators).

I also think nobody (non-Irish) should sit in a session before reading Barry Foy’s Field Guide to the Irish Music Session.

Last and also least, here’s an article i wrote:
http://www.murphyroche.com/SubPages/Irish_Traditional_Music.htm

3

There actually has recently been a pretty extensive discussion on this very topic over on Concertina.net. The gist was that someone wanted a louder concertina because he couldn’t hear himself in his session. The consensus of the responses was that other people could probably hear him a whole lot better than he could hear himself, since his sound was being projected away from himself, and the others might think HE was drowning THEM out.

Maybe your customer should ask the other people in the session whether they can hear him, and start a discussion there about whether they’re actually all trying to play louder and louder so they can hear themselves. After all, it’s very possible to play a squeezbox quietly if you want to…

:slight_smile:
Steven

4

There is a segment in Barry Foy’s guide that explains the protocol for too many free-reed instruments. If there aren’t enough concertinas and accordions for everybody then they should be left at home.

Cheers,
Aaron

5

switch to the concertina, it’ll even things out.

6

In this case, piano accordion may be even more effective! :smiley:

Flute is not really a loud instrument. In a session with so many accordions, the flute will be dronwned. Maybe he needs to develop an appreciation for blending in, rather than being heard. Or switch to the piccolo! It works!

In general, it’s good to think about having interesting things to “say” with your instrument, having good enough sound, technique, knowledge of the tunes and variations, before worrying about other people being able to hear you.

g

7

If flautists were to stick to sessions involving only musical instruments they would have much less trouble .
They should avoid accordions . ( Everybody should ).

8

Hi again,

In reading through the replies and referred web pages in regard to my original question about Irish session etiquette, I learned that as a member of the session audience I was never, never, never supposed to request “Danny Boy”. I gather that musicians in an Irish session play mostly reels, jigs, hornpipes, and maybe a few slow airs, whereas “Danny Boy” is actually a popular song based on the folk melody “Londonderry Air”. . However, “Danny Boy” remains one of the best-loved popular songs in the Irish or Irish-American repertoire. When the great, 20th century violinist, Fritz Kreisler, was asked what tune that he had played had the most beautiful melody, he replied “Danny Boy”. Since “Danny Boy” could easily be played as a slow air, and since it is so well-loved and has roots in the folk tradition, I don’t quite understand why that would be such a forbidden request, other than the fact that the audience is not supposed to request tunes.

Best wishes and happy fluting,
Doug Tipple

9

right you are glauber, the piano accordian it is. now 3 accordians, two concertinas, and a piano accordian all playing … ‘danny boy’

this is getting interesting

10

Q (buyer): Do you have a flute that’s loud?
A (seller): Why, is how you play worth listening to?

If you can’t hear yourself, then move away from the distraction.
Put the accordion to your left instead of sitting straight in front of it.
Flute player in your ear tongues notes and has horrible intonation and phrasing? If you’d not like to toss him from the session, move across and away from him. Sitting to the flute’s right puts it in the loud zone.
Can you hear the fiddle when you play? If not, you’re playing too loudly.

ARe the guitars strumming/plucking or whacking away?
Is there more than one bodhran playing at any given time? More than one guitar? Are they together?

So much to deal with!
dm

11

Hello again, Doug!

this is an inside joke. Actually these days Celine Dion’s Titanic song is probably even more hated tahn Danny Boy. People don’t mind playing Danny Boy (aka (London)Derry Air) occasionally, but if it gets requested every day by the local drunks it gets annoying.

About sessions: the thing for your friend to realize is that sessions are social occasions, more so than musical occasions. It’s not really an orchestra or band rehearsal, and people are there to meet their friends and have fun, not necessarily to attain the best possible sound or to make all the flute players happy. And definitely not to entertain the drunks so they buy more beer! Tough, but that’s what it is. When he has the right attitude, he’ll enjoy himself no matter if he gets to shine or not.

g

12

Another take on the recurring issue of session etiquette, applicable in any irish session, too :

http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/sess/ss4.html[/b]

13

Excellent link, Pat.

14

We’re starting up a weekly teaching seisiun for the newer players, followed by a closed seisiun. Here’s the latest draft version of the guidelines for the teaching seisun that will be published on the store’s website. I’d appreciate any feedback. Please feel free to use them for your own situations if useful:

Acoustic Expressions Irish Slow Seisiun Guidelines

INTRODUCTION

Acoustic Expressions, and the seisiun leaders, Elaine and Michael, are very excited to host a weekly traditional Irish seisiun on Thursday nights:

7:00 – 8:00 PM: Slow seisiun, open to all players
8:15 – 10:00 PM: Performance seisiun, open by invitation only

These simple guidelines for the early slow seisiun are what we have found make for a successful and sustainable seisiun. Players attending the seisiun will be expected to behave consistent with these common-sense guidelines.

ACOUSTIC EXPRESSIONS HOUSE RULES

No smoking or alcohol permitted. Sodas will be on sale for $.50 each.

Children are welcome if they are actively participating in the seisiun. Any families with unsupervised children will be asked to leave.

Please stay out of the storefront unless you are making a purchase and are accompanied by an Acoustic Expressions staff member.

You may only try out instruments only with the explicit permission of the Acoustic Expressions staff.

The seisiun will end at exactly 10 p.m. so please arrive on time.

JOINING THE SEISIUN

The early slow seisiun, while open to the public, is primarily for students of the store’s instructors and is open to all skill levels. Participation in the later performance seisiun is by invitation only. Please contact either Elaine or Michael if you are interested in attending the later seisiun.

THE MUSIC

We will be playing tunes in traditional Irish dance styles such as reels, jigs, slip jigs, slides, hornpipes, and polkas. Other styles, such as bluegrass, old-time, and Scottish are discouraged.
Traditional Irish dance style means that tunes are played in unison, with no melodic improvisation other than ornaments. Prospective players are encouraged to seek out and listen to groups like Altan or the Bothy Band for examples of seisiun style playing.

INSTRUMENTS

The early seisiun is intended for traditional Irish melody instruments only.

These instruments include: Fiddle, flute, pennywhistle, low whistle, Uilleann pipes, button or piano accordion, concertina, guitar (melody flatpicking), mandolin, bouzouki/octave mandolin, and tenor banjo.

Non-traditional instruments (such as saxophone, recorder, or trumpet) are not allowed.

There will be no guitar or bouzouki backup or bodhran allowed in the early seisiun without special invitation from the seisiun leader.

TOUCHING INSTRUMENTS

Please do not touch or play other player’s instruments without their permission. Musicians can be very protective of their instruments and some are easily damaged.

TUNING

All players are expected to tune their instruments before the seisiun and to keep them in tune. If you need to retune, please do during the breaks between tune sets, and get help if you need it. Be sure to tune to any fixed pitch instruments such as pipes or accordion. Most mass-produced pennywhistles have tuning issues. Whistle players are strongly encouraged to have a tunable whistle before they start playing in seisiuns.

STARTING A TUNE

Seisiun leaders will start most of the tune sets. If you’d like to request a particular set of tunes, or would like to start a set, please ask the seisiun leader.

NO “NOODLING”

If you don’t know the tune, either very quietly work it out while staying in time with the music or you are unable to do so, just sit the tune out. A simple guideline is to play the tunes you know and don’t play the tunes you don’t know. Do your practicing at home, not at the seisiun.

USING WRITTEN MUSIC IN SEISIUN

While useful for initially learning tunes at home, the use of music books or sheet music during the seisiun is not allowed. Irish music is primarily an aural tradition.

TEMPO

As a courtesy to the other players, please play the tunes at the speed started originally, don’t speed up or slow down. This is extremely important for an enjoyable seisiun.

RECORDING

Players are encouraged to record the seisiun and use the recordings to learn the tunes! Recordings made at the seisiun are for your own personal use only.

RESPECT OTHER PLAYERS

Please don’t carry on conversations while others are playing. If you need to talk to someone, go to another part of the room.

Always be courteous to the people around you.

Most important of all - have fun playing, and enjoy the music!

GOOD TUNES TO LEARN

Reels
Merry Blacksmith
Cooley’s
Cup of Tea
Tom Billy’s
Hunter’s Purse
Gravel Walk

Jigs
Banish Misfortune
Lark in the Morning
The Kesh
Morrison’s

Slip Jigs
Kid on the Mountain
Snowy Path

15

We have built a good weekly session without having much in the way of formal rules. Pat, Sam, and I call the tunes, but if anybody has a tune they’d like to play then we are open to that. If we don’t know the tune we sit it out and enjoy listening.

I think we’ve been really lucky as to who we have playing with us, and the venue we get to play in. There has only been one time we’ve ever had to approach someone about conduct, and that was not a big deal, quickly forgotten.

Some weeks work out better than others, but every week we have fun and learn.

Not that I have anything against rules, I’m just really glad we’ve been able to keep a very open session and still turn out some good tunes. To me, the more rules you add, the more artificial and performance-oriented the whole thing becomes.

Of course, the flip side is that if someone wanted to, it would be pretty easy to trash out one of our sessions. The reason it works is because everyone wants it to and deliberately tries to make it work. If we started having trouble, we’d have to add our own rules to the mix, and take the bad results of that along with the good.

–James

16

We’re offering this early seisiun primarily as a practice for the students who take lessons at the store, as well as opening it up to the general community. Many of the players will probably be kids, so I think some written rules and structure, particularly when I have to explain to Johnny’s mom why her little angel just can’t bang on his bodhran every tune, will be helpful… :slight_smile:

17

Hi Eskin
Whats a seisiun?
Do you have armed guards? :wink:
John S

18

Our sessions have always been more of the “unspoken balance” that James mentions, albeit with occasional disasters. But eventually they right themselves or, on the one or two occasions when it’s a truly heinous offender, we’ve relocated/hiatused the session for a bit.

But I think those sound like good basic guidelines, Michael. Good luck with it, and thanks for your willingness to provide people with a place to play!

As for the loud flute question, wow, that’s a toughie – especially for a maker to answer. Free-market capitalism and self-regulating session rules suggest that the player can be as loud as s/he wants. If s/he’s really bad, sooner or later her/his volume will be adjusted deus ex sesh machina.

However, if said player is really bad and really loud, does that reflect back on the maker, especially when you’re a relatively new or non-major-label maker? Hmmm. Like I said, tough personal decision. I guess all the maker can do is make the flute as in-tune as humanly possible, and then hope for the best.

You know, it’s funny – I got my Hamilton in no small part because I always heard they were loud and I was always feeling drowned out. And indeed, it can be a big ol’ loud flute if I play it that way.

And it’s true, I can hear myself much better at sessions since I got it.

BUT. The funny thing is, I don’t think this is because the flute is merely loud. Instead, I think that a) the flute has a certain sound quality that does cut through, but b) more important, I’ve learned to HEAR it better.

Because I’m actually playing a lot more easily and softly than I used to, but now that I can recognize my flute’s “voice” plus listen to MYSELF better than I used to (instead of the accordions), I don’t feel nearly so worried about competing.

Anyway, FWIW.

Toss me!

19

Actually, they just plan to put mood-altering substances in the offender’s soda-pop. :smiling_imp:

20

John S, “seisiun” is Irish for “session”.

Armed guards may not be necessary, but sometimes ya just gotta speak up. I’m getting too old to waste time waiting for session wreckers to gain a clue anymore, not that I’m given to being a tyrant. I’d really rather not, thank you. Still, when someone (actual example) with an annoying whistle who can’t play to save his life takes it on himself to set me straight about the rights and wrongs of hornpipes, well…I’m no big shakes, myself, but if he’s in a position to learn from me, I’m going to establish that in such cases if I must.

The thing about that is I’d rather not have to. A good session is when we all stay humble, pay attention to our surroundings, and play our best or sit out and listen to learn, I think.