I was away foreign, playing at a festival, and during one of the evening sessions, a man came in and sat down beside me with a whistle. It was`nt a normal D whistle, but a Low whistle ( low D ). Everything was going grand, when someone launched into a set that probably only us tutors would have known.
Whistle man started tooting in a very un-melodic way, obviously not knowing what the tune was, to the point that we couldnt play because we were so distracted by this discordant stuff he was doing in the background.
We all stopped feeling fairly pi**ed off.
Would it have been acceptable to ask him to stop, and point out to him that if you dont have the tune at all, its maybe best to listen for a while, or do you put up and shut up for the sake of not upsetting him and then feeling bad yourself for being so rude?
Which is the more socially acceptable in your opinion?
Meh, tell him he needs to go get a flute or a high whistle (make a commitment, you know), and stop playing tunes he doesn’t know. 
In all seriousness, though, I don’t ever play tunes at session I don’t know. I may play one or two notes to find the key, so I can write it down and go find the tune later, but I don’t make a racket trying to work the tune out while everyone else is playing.
Maybe one day I’ll be able to learn tunes from hearing them once, and playing along reasonably well, but until then, I’m not going to ruin everyone else’s experience.
See, thats what I thought Congrats. I think that would be the first time I have come across an incident so irritating and blindingly silly, since starting to play.
What I dont understand is what he was getting out of it. He wasnt making an effort to find the relevant notes, he just started throwing obscure notes out in the middle of the set, and he wasnt a bit quiet about it either. He wasnt learning anything and he wasnt interested in hearing musicians from Ireland ( we were in Spain at the time )
The main problem was that the men in the session were all for turfing him out. I on the other hand, for some inexplicable reason started feeling embaressed!
Whats all that about? Why should I feel uncomfortable? He didnt!
I used to try to pick out tunes at our slowish session. Then a whistler
came who did the same thing. I see how annoying it is, especially for
other novices who are just trying to follow along. So, I have stopped.
Maybe there’s a way you can subtly show him how annoying it is,
maybe do it yourself once or twice. He may say something, and then
you can say “now you see how obnoxious it is”.
Here in North America we encounter that sort of thing quite frequently, especially at sessions in pubs where the musicians are offered free beer, which motivates non-musicians to show up with borrowed (or worse) instruments.
On the one hand, it’s a public session and you have to expect the unexpected. On the other hand, this chap is destroying what sounds like a nice musical and social experience.
The usual procedure I’ve seen at sessions is for people to first stop playing, which is what you all did, without being confrontational about it. Then start up again and if he continues being disruptive, stop again but cast meaningful looks in his direction. Start up again and if this time he doesn’t get it, it’s time for someone to talk to him and explain that while he would be welcome to join the session in the future once he learns how to play, right now he’s disrupting the music for everyone else and his noodling is not appreciated. If anyone’s brave enough to do that he will either get the message and stop, or else start a commotion…which is why most people aren’t brave enough to say those things.
I find what you said very interesting fearfaoin. I honestly do not mind people picking up tunes in a session, but I think that it is one of those skills that takes years to learn, spotting patterns is not as easy as some people think. Had he been making a serious effort to actually learn the tune I could have showed it to him, which is what I was getting paid for anyway! But when he asked me why everyone was so upset, I had to tell him, which made me feel very uncomfortable to say the least. If he wasnt able to figure it out, then I was not going to be able to explain it to him.
The sad thing about it was, that here was an opportunity for him to learn from trad players who were there for the sole purpose of instruction, but he knew more than us, or so he tried to make me think!
When I asked him if he wanted the notes written down, he told me that he would just ‘pick it up by ear’!
Oh I give up!
Do you think maybe yer man was a few fingerholes short of a flute?
Was the guy Spanish? Good session etiquette may not have reached the wilds of Spain.
I can’t forgive his behaviour except for ignorance, totally unsessionworthy, but just a query - would he have been able to play simpler tunes if you’d not been playing a “tutors’ only” set? Or was he a committed noodler with no idea of how to play anything.
I like Brad’s approach, and next time someone sits near me and bangs away on something regardless, I’ll do the same.
Still, you’ve got to admire his cheek - the number of times I and others I know have sat in a session with an instrument in our hands and not been able to even lift it to playing position, for lack of knowing the tunes (or lack of ability to play/learn at breakneck speed).
As Brad said, we run into that fairly frequently in North America; blame it on the free pints. The worst thing is, the poor fella may have actually thought he WAS picking out relevant notes, heaven help him.
Anyway, I personally feel embarrassed in those situations because I am a gal … it’s like I somehow assume I’m supposed to be Hostess and Cruise Director even when it’s not my session.
Blame it on my mother!
That said, I see a few options …
- Invite the fellow up to the bar and have a quiet chat wherein you will hopefully set him straight in a reasonably diplomatic fashion; if the drinks aren’t free buying him a pint can help. The sooner you do this the better, because if you wait 'til emotions are running high, it’s a lot tougher.
I have also offered to take someone aside and teach them the tune (BTW, in terms of defining boundaries … it doesn’t hurt to tell them you’re only giving them 20 minutes before you go back to the adult swim).
-
If he can’t be deterred, show him the Blu-Tak trick if you have some with you (I always have some in my flute pack). Chewing gum works in a pinch …
-
The simple solution: Let the guys turf him and then work on letting it go (unless, of course, he happens to be the pub owner!) … 'cos hey, they’re just handling it the guy way!
All best,
cat.
P.S. Sorry you had to go through that; I hate it so much. We struggle with it off and on a fair amount, and the worst thing is, it’s not like many of these folks aren’t nice people … they’re just on another planet, I guess.
I’m trying to put myself in the position of someone doing something socially unacceptable, and being made aware of it. This may be something one would approach differently with men and women. But if I were the one merrily tooting away, I would be mortified to be told directly that I was out of line. I’d probably pack up and leave right away. 
So I’d favor the draw-him-aside approach, in which you explain gently that this kind of music is usually played without harmony, and are there any tunes you know that we could all play together?
But some folks aren’t good at interpreting these gentle nudges. Sometimes in my classroom I use what would be, if directed at me, quite embarrassingly direct behavioral coaching. And as long as I do it respectfully, it’s accepted without defensiveness. Some people honestly do not have a clue, and they don’t mind being respectfully informed.
I know what you mean Cathy, even though it’s not always my role, I often try to step in and smooth things out if I feel a conflict brewing.
Jennie
There is a certain point where one has to stop trying to pick up a tune they don’t know, this guy went way over it. Of course with reasonable practice, it is not that hard to do, I do it myself all the time, but if I can’t get it I stop playing and long to have a Bouzouki to back up the tune with.
Maire,
I honestly don’t know how that guy got from Santa Monica, California all the way to that session. We’ve had the same problem here once. What’s weird is that the whistler here actually played the tunes for a while, and then either the drink or an unfamiliar tune got to him, and he just started away making loud, disruptive wailings. Not trying to learn the tune, just gone off the deep end, seemed deliberate. Push him out.
If someone’s just noodling around near you, sincerely trying to work out the tune, then someone should give them the word to be more discreet, and to move further away, at least. It needn’t be a crushing blow.
Kevin Krell
Good approach, Unseen. Part of being a good musician is knowing when not to play.
BTW, I still think Cathy’s avatar is the bees knees!
That was a good one!
Thanks, BB! (Can I call you BB? I feel so … close to you now.)
I’m sorry, I’m silly today. I guess because it’s warming up a bit outside.
Maire, from your initial post, it sounded as if the fellow fit in for a bit, then fell apart on something that he patently didn’t know.
You also mentioned further down that he DID notice and ask about people being annoyed. It sounds like he’s observant and not a total loss. The moment someone says something like ‘why’ you have a perfect opening to tell him. Something along the lines of ‘Playing at tunes you don’t know is very distracting and everyone noticed. Its best to drop out and let others play alone. Its a session etiquette thing.’
I also think its one of those sexist things, but people take etiquette guidance better from women than men. Maybe because typically mothers teach manners, and most people pick up on a woman catching their eye, shaking their head and making the shush sign. Later you can explain.
Or you can get irritated and have the evening spoiled I suppose. I’m not the best player, and I do try things that might be beyond me. But I do try to fit in.
Maire - Here is a hint at what would be in my mind,
if I were in the same situation.
Was the guy Spanish? Good session etiquette may not have reached the wilds of Spain.
Martin, this statement might not be wrong at all. Unfortunately, sessions are not held so often as many of us would like here. In some way, sessions are great events were anybody has the chance to do his best and sometimes, prudence does not rules . I’ve been to sessions with more than 15 musicians (plus 4 bodhraners ) Just imagine: chaos and disorder. Several musicians starting sets at the same time, hugely mixed skills…
In my local session, there are a couple of whistles, a UP, strings, bodhran (thanks God only one) a fiddle and one, ocasionally two flutes. Well, we always have the same feeling of getting lost at certain point were one of the guys plays two or three sets of tunes that nobody else know. Obviously all along the session, everybody has the chance to play alone to show a tune as a proposal for the next session or just because it’s so nice, everybody listens, goes for a drink, and take a breath. Mention that this guy is not precisely what we’d call an expert and we don’t enjoy these moments a lot, we rather feel a bit embarrased. The guy is quite a good fellow and I understand that as a beginner he wants to share his improvement with us, but it’s somewhat annoying. Nobody wants to tell anything so as to not to upset him and make him feel down.
Maire, If this incident in Spain occured last november (let’s say Caceres) I was a witness of what hapenned and I have to say that things went just like you said. He took a bit offence cause he maybe considered that a session is playing amongst friends and didn’t understood reprobatory looks and silent. Don’t feel bad, in Spain we always say that it’s well worth once red faced than hundred yellow and he took the concept for sure. All in all, we love Irish music, want to play in the Irish style, why not a bit of Irish behaving while playing?
Maire, I’m still working on those two lovely jigs, thank you.
In these situations, there are lots of unknowns and variables, so it’s often hard to know how best to respond to inappropriate behavior. If I haven’t had too many pints (or a really bad day at work), I try to keep the following guidelines in mind when I wade into explaining session etiquette:
- Check your emotions, and start with a calm, rational, cordial tone.
- Praise in public, critique in private. In other words, don’t challenge someone in front of other people. Invite them to the bar for a pint, or outside for fresh air.
- Challenge behavior, not the person. No need to assault someone’s character just because they’re out of tune, speeding up, or noodling. Stay focused on the real problem.
- Communicate. Rather than simply telling someone off, aim for a two-way conversation. If it’s a newcomer, say hello, introduce yourself, and ask an open-ended question–“So what do you think of our little session?” or “That’s a nice (fill in instrument)–how long have you been playing?” You can’t hope to change their behavior without knowing at least a little about where they’re coming from. (The most common “problem” mind set I run into is “jams are so much fun because anyone can join in and you don’t even have to know the music!”)
- Don’t lose your cool even if the other person does. Sometimes you just have to let people be who they are, even if it isn’t pretty. And then ask them to leave if they refuse to fit in.
A good way to explain session etiquette is to compare the session to a conversation among friends. If you want to join in, you have to listen first to understand what the conversation is about, then decide whether you can contribute on that topic, and be able to speak the same language.
And if all else fails, you can always flame the tosser on the spot and steer them to the door. When you sit back down, tell your friends to relax, you were just practicing your “bouncer on steroids” impersonation…
Interesting discussion. I’ve encountered this a few times too. Something just occurred to me … Maybe the people who do this think they cannot be heard, don’t realize that they are not ‘trying out their notes’ softly.. ?