I’m searching for a new sporano D for playing with a few folks(fiddle, guitar, etc.) because while my laughing whistle is great it is too quiet. The others complain that they can’t hear me when playing in the group. After reading the messages on here I think I want a Burke, but, which one? For those of you who know both which one is going to give me the closest sound to the Laughing Whistle only louder? ( I tend to prefer the clear sounds of a decent nickle generation as opposed to the breathy clarkes. Just for reference.) Can anyone help?
If you want the sound of a good nickel Generation, you’re probably not going to like any Burke.
Burke whistles are all much more mellow than any Generation, although the choice of material and design does play a significant role in the sound of a Burke.
For recording, I generally prefer the ultra-pure tone of my Al-Pro Session.
For a more chiffy and traditional sound, I prefer the old-style WBB.
And finally for overall volume and resonance, I like the Burke composite… that one wouldn’t be drowned out in a noisy session! 
If it’s clear, responsive and bold that you’re looking for, it’s hard to beat a Silkstone (alloy or PVC)… and there’s usually no waiting period for one.
There are no local sessions for me to attend, so I generally lean toward quieter whistles that mic well for recording purposes… and so I don’t get a headache from playing in my bedroom studio! 
I’m a huge Burke fan, and I’d highly recommend Mike’s whistles to anybody… just don’t be disappointed when you find that they don’t stand up very well against Generations.
The only high-end whistle I have that can stand up to a Generation is my Sindt… and I’m sure you’re well aware of the cross-fingering issues with Sindts.
You might also want to look into the new VSB Susatos as a more affordable option… forget everything you know and have been told about Susatos, these new models are a giant leap forward for Susato.
“[Rain Dogs] …the ones you see wanderin’ around after a rain. Ones that can’t find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants…”
Tom Waits
[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2002-03-03 22:36 ]
What are you talking about when you say “stand up to Generations”? I have many Generations, purchased on the notion that I might find that ONE great one, but have found that they are toy whistles trying in vain to live up to the reputation that they once were. Burke whistles are far better than Generations. -JP
On 2002-03-04 00:53, JohnPalmer wrote:
What are you talking about when you say “stand up to Generations”? I have many Generations, purchased on the notion that I might find that ONE great one, but have found that they are toy whistles trying in vain to live up to the reputation that they once were. Burke whistles are far better than Generations. -JP
I’m not saying they aren’t, in fact I agree 100% that Burke whistles are far superior to Generations… and most other whistles for that matter.
I wasn’t trying to get any arguments going with my earlier post… just stating the fact that someone who likes the sound of a Generation will not get anything even remotely similar from any Burke.
The fact remains though that Generations are far more responsive than Burkes, and have a much bolder tonal quality… and granted that the majority of them just plain suck.
If you’re looking for a good Generation, I find that the Eb is the best bet… I have yet to run across one that couldn’t be whipped into great shape with a little tweaking.
In fact, I have no desire to buy a high-end Eb because my nickel Generation Eb is so good.
Burkes 100% superior whistles to Generations? I wouldn’t say so (putting it mildly).
I have an old style Burke WBB and a Sindt, and yet I still prefer to play my Generation brass D most of the time. Its my most responsive whistle, I love the “bold tone quality” and it carries better than the Burke in a session(to my ear).
I think a Burke is “better” for people who like a purer, more polished sounding whistle, and for people looking for an aesthetically refined whistle. It depends very much on personal preference and tastes.
I also agree with Raindog that people who want the Generation sound/experience most probably wouldn’t like a Burke. However I’m getting the impression that cowtime was just saying that he was not looking for a breathy sounding whistle when he did that Generation Vs Clarke comparison.
[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2002-03-04 03:22 ]
Having carefully read the previous posts - and for what it is worth: The AlPro will give a more ‘pure’ tone than the Brass Pro. No value judgement is meant, here…
Cheers
[quote]
On 2002-03-03 22:34, raindog1970 wrote:
For recording, I generally prefer the ultra-pure tone of my Al-Pro Session.
For a more chiffy and traditional sound, I prefer the old-style WBB.
The only high-end whistle I have that can stand up to a Generation is my Sindt… and I’m sure you’re well aware of the cross-fingering issues with Sindts.
“[Rain Dogs] …the ones you see wanderin’ around after a rain. Ones that can’t find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants…”
Tom Waits
Three questions Raindog:
(1)Are the Burke Al Pro Session and the old style WBB equally as easy to play?
(2) Other than sound, what is the difference between the Burke Al Pro & WBB?
(3) Not owning a Sindt, I am ignorant of the cross-fingering issues with the Sindt. Could you expand on that?
Thanks much!
Eldarion- you are correct! My comparison between Generation and Clarke was given as an example of my personal preference in whistle sounds. I prefer a clear sound and was using that example in case one of these two whistles produce a clearer sound. From the posts I am assuming that the Al pro is clearer sounding.Is that correct? Now, am I correct in assuming it will be heard by others in our group when playing this whistle.
Thanks to all of you for your answers. It sure helps when you are fixing to buy one of these high end whistles to get feedback from folks who know the different ones and how they sound. I agree with ya’ll on the E-flat Generation, I’ve got one that has had nothing done to it and is about 15-20yrs old. Plays great. And, ya’ll, it’s “cow” time. Not, “bull” time. Been years since I could be classified as a “heifer”, but I’m not a he. LOL. Raindog, I’ll be very intrested in your answers to Glengarry’s questions. They will certainly help in my decision. Thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: cowtime on 2002-03-04 14:53 ]
On 2002-03-04 14:20, Glengary wrote:
Three questions Raindog:
(1)Are the Burke Al Pro Session and the old style WBB equally as easy to play?
(2) Other than sound, what is the difference between the Burke Al Pro & WBB?
(3) Not owning a Sindt, I am ignorant of the cross-fingering issues with the Sindt. Could you expand on that?
Thanks much!
(1) The Al-Pro Session requires a bit less air than the WBB, so it is a bit easier to play… especially long passages.
I don’t have a narrow bore Burke of any design, but I hope to run across a good used old-style narrow bore brass Burke someday… I’m sure it would require significantly less air than a wide bore or session model.
(2) The Al-Pro and Brass Pro are a total re-design over the WBB… the two designs are very different, each with their own unique characteristics.
I can’t say that I have a preference over either design… they are both great, and I love both of them.
(3) You cannot get a true C natural with cross-fingering on a Sindt.
You can come close by using “forked” fingering and blowing gently, but half-holing is the only reliable way to do it.
John makes no secret of that fact, or apologies for it… it’s just the way the whistle was designed.
I still love my Sindt D in spite of the cross-fingering issue.
For fast tunes that really need crisp ornamentation, it’s usually my whistle of choice since Burkes are so mellow sounding.
I know I’ll take flack for saying it, but no high-end whistle I know of comes as close to reproducing the highly sought after sound of a good Generation than a Sindt.
“[Rain Dogs] …the ones you see wanderin’ around after a rain. Ones that can’t find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants…”
Tom Waits
[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2002-03-04 20:58 ]
Thanks Raindog! Because of your response I learned someting new tonight!
Some of us folk just know enough or play enough to be dangerous … (my dog’s poor ears!!!)
[ This Message was edited by: Glengary on 2002-03-05 01:27 ]
I’ll have to admit that one of my two favorite whistles is the Hoover, because it has THE sweetest tone I have ever heard and all the notes play (this particular one would be the perfect whistle, except that it is too soft,) and the Oak–OK, I found a good one–which is the one I think that I have recorded more on for Clips and Snips (they’ve deleted some of the older recordings to make room for newer ones). But I play my Burkes more in live situations. I think that is why we must have so many different whistles, because there are so many different playing environments. I do wish that I could find a Generation that has the sound of the older models. But I believe that, according to a long lost post from a previous whistle board, that the Generation’s plastic mouthpiece is not shaped the same way as it once was, and so we will be hard pressed to find an old-time-sounding Generation, the kind with the chiff and the little pops here and there. Granted, Burkes don’t have that extra non-harmonic distortion, but they are very well made and play very well. JP
If you’re looking for volume you’d probably be much happier with the WBB. I have a Burke Brass-Pro in C and it is the weakest of my Burke whistles - it’s even a bit weaker than my narrow-bore (my first Burke whistle).
The Brass-Pro isn’t a bad whistle by any stretch, but it doesn’t really have a lot of volume. On the other hand, it doesn’t take a lot of air either. I did notice however that it is a bit touchier about octave transitions than my other Burke whistles. In fact, only my Hoovers are touchier in this respect.
All in all it’s hard to go really wrong with any of the Burke whistles, but if you’re looking for more volume the WBB is probably the best bet. If you’re looking for that undefinable thing I call “authority” you might want to look at a Copeland. My Copeland is not as well in-tune across the octaves as my Burkes, but it’s still my favorite D whistle because it just demands that you pay attention when it speaks – sort of the E.F. Hutton of whistles, I guess;-)
John
I tried John Roger’s Laughing Whistle once. It was very nice. I tried his Hoover and chose it over the Laughing because I wanted a quiet practice whistle. I tried Joe Madjeski’s old Wide Bore Brass Burke (hence my comparison has nothing to do with the AlPro model). Also another very nice whistle. The Burke is definitely louder, but I don’t think the difference will be that great if people can’t hear your Laughing now. I’d predict that you go from having people that “can’t hear you” to people that “can barely hear you.” Other louder whistles are out there. Copelands, Susatos, O’Riordan, Overtons, Chieftains, and Thin and Water Weasels (from listening, Dixon whistles are on the quieter end of loud whistles). I don’t know about the Silkstone or Tully for sure. I would say the Sindt would be noticable louder than the old style Burke, but not in the same league with the others mentioned above.
On 2002-03-05 12:31, OutOfBreath wrote:
. . .If you’re looking for that undefinable thing I call “authority” you might want to look at a Copeland. My Copeland is not as well in-tune across the octaves as my Burkes, but it’s still my favorite D whistle because it just demands that you pay attention when it speaks – sort of the E.F. Hutton of whistles, I guess;-)
I’ve noticed that folks that play Copeland whistles, more or less exclusively, play them in tune. They also often generally dislike O’Riordan tunings. O’Riordan players like the tuning and dislike Copeland tuning. Burke has the perturbed bore that is supposed to fix some of the tuning issues.
I usually think about this by taking a step back. I think fipple designs change wind demands (volume & pressure), and that conical v. cylindrical tubes change the variation between responses along the range of the scales. The perturbed bore will change that all, too.
With all these variables, I think that what really improves intonation of a whistle is playing. I think that applies from the plastic and brass Generation all the way to your silver Copeland engraved with plants. I think what is key is that your brain plans on hitting a particular note. Your lips, tongue, and diaphragm respond in a certain way. When you play on one whistle for a long time, you improve that specific muscle response. A different whistle will always change, ever so slightly, the response in sound frequency to the set of muscle controls you apply. Provided you can blow a whistle in tune by changing those parameters, you need to adapt to the new whistle or you will be out of tune. This is the main advantage of playing one whistle over time. You can fine tune your muscles to make your playing better with your chosen ax.
Cheers.
I too gotta vote for a Water Weasel – they’re loud, dead on tune, unbreakable, and remarkably inexpensive.
I also have a Burke WBB – a very fine whistle, but I don’t think of it as being very loud. The Burke WBB is what I usually play at home when I have the house to myself – sort of medium volume.
–Judith Redding