I am about to blaspheme here; I have listened to a lot of Matt Molloy over the years but I am at the point where when I hear some of his playing ( mainly those super fast reels) that it hurts my brain trying to pick the tune out because there is too much going on.
Don’t get me wrong, I could not play like Molloy in a fit and would love to have a thousandth of his ability, he is one of the greatest Irish flute players ever, full stop.
Am I the only person who feels this way about some of his playing?
Mary Bergin is another example.
Getting my flak jacket and body armour on in preparation!
I think virtuosity will always stand on its own merits, but yes, there can be a level at which speed and execution become something less than the music intended. If the message is lost, it doesn’t matter how well you typed it.
I guess the point at which the amount of ornamentation stops adding to the tune/style of playing and simply becomes distracting is very subjective.
It depends on the audience I guess as well… if he’s playing for an audience of folkies, they may want to hear the show-offy stuff he can do.
I can sympathise with you though… some of the stuff the great pipers of our time do (im talking GHB here) i find gimmicky and annoying.
When I listened to Matt Molloy for the first time it was during the “An Irish Evening” dvd…and I thought “well he is truly a God” and I probably could have not distinguished the tune. I was also less experienced in listening to Irish music of that type. When I first heard Mary Bergin I had been playing whistle for a while and could distinguish tunes, but not all ornamentations. The more I listened, the more the music seemed to slow down in my head…like the flying notes broke down into ornamentations of all sorts and I could now listen to a song and play by ear from it. This I wouldn’t have been able to do having first listened to her. I enjoy her playing though. I find most of her stuff to not sound so jumbled, but more clean and precise, but it all depends on your listening experience, preference, or even what instrument’s you play…and countless other variables.
-Sean
Thanks for you posts folks, I can take the flak jacket off now.
What I mean by too much going on was, yes, too much ornamentation, and too fast. I have no problem hearing his ornamentation and no problem with his speed, maybe some times I am too tired to take it in and it grates? Then again, there are times I am really in the mood for playing along and listening, but when I listen to Matt Molloy at that time it can really sound hard on my ears. Like I said, is it just me who feels this way?
Are there other whistle players who you guys really like but at times can’t be bothered listening to them?
I am just curious because this happens to me sometimes with Matt Molloy’s playing, although not every time I hear him.
I have seen Mr. Molloy play in concert and in a session in his pub in Ireland ( Molloy’s, Westport, County Sligo ) and have his early Bothy band stuff and lots of other recordings from over the years, and like I said before, he is one of the greatest ever.
I don’t even have to mention ‘flute player’ when praising him, we just all know it anyway.
Well, we don’t have to love everything a famous performer does. Even J.S. Bach wrote a few clinkers in his time. To pretend to love those just because Bach wrote them is nonsense, yet you’ll find people who will torture themselves with it for just that reason.
I use Winamp (free), and Pacemaker (also free) to slow down tunes without changing the pitch. Mainly use them to learn new tunes, but occasionally I like to slow some of the faster players like Molloy, just to listen to them. At a slightly slower pace, they sound more musical and make better listening to my old ears. Both of the programs work only on mp3 files. If you rip your own mp3’s, be sure to rip at the highest sample rate, so you don’t lose fidelity.
I think it’s not uncommon in music (and possibly other areas) for very skilled people to do overly fast/complex things because they can or because they understand them, even if the audience is lost. I mean, even in classical music you get that.
I think it’s not uncommon in music (and possibly other areas) for very skilled people to do overly fast/complex things because they can or because they understand them, even if the audience is lost. I mean, even in classical music you get that.
Totally agree. I can’t specify if I prefer simply done tunes to super-embelished ones; I think it largely depends on the tune and my mood. Even when I’m playing, I walk this line. The speed/ornamentation of a tune is based (for me anyway) on an algorythm factoring in my mood, the audience’s mood/age, the tune itself, and what instrument I am playing. I find that some tunes I like to really embelish and go crazy on on instrument “X”, but if I play said tune on instrument “Y”, I like to take it pretty straight, with a minimalistis approach. Certain audiences really don’t care about how much “English” (or should it be “Irish”?) you can put on a tune; they show up to hear some nice tunes. Many players, however, can get bored with a piece, and add lots of ornaments to try to spice it up a bit.
So glad to know I’m not the only one who feels this way. I bought Mary Bergin’s cd and only listened to it a few times. I bought an Trad Irish Music 3 cd set and love it! It’s got more dance paced and slow air tunes that are more enjoyable to my ears anyway. I admit MB is a heck of a musician though and I will never be able to play like her.
I felt the same way about Matt Molloy for quite some time and voiced my opinion many times on the flute board. Liked a lot of his stuff with the Bothies and the Chieftains, but beyond that he seemed in large part to be a show off. Then I got the Heathery Breeze. Much of it at a very relaxed pace, much of it on the low flute. I now understand what makes him a flute god, and am embarrassed at having formed a strong opinion based on insufficient information. The black album still doesn’t do it for me, though.
Well, I’m so glad I’m not the only one to have felt this way about some ITM! In fact, when I first picked up the whistle, I found myself in a dilemma because, based on what little I’d heard in the internet, I didn’t think I liked Irish music at all. I found it to be just a whirling dervish of notes, like the Tasmanian devil visits the County Clare!
Of course I persisted, and found plenty I loved. And who knows who I was listening to on the net – maybe he wasn’t a good player. Or maybe he was a wonderful player, and I was (and probably still am) too “slow a listener” to appreciate him!
It’s good to know that the more I listen the more I’ll be able to hear.
I think a lot is what you have learned to listen to, and what you like. When I was a music student, I did not like orchestral music, until I learned the theory and listen to a lot. Always liked jazz, but when I learned the theory and listen, became easier. When I learned the GHB, found the original manuscript to Hector the Hero. Copied it for GHB. Found piping’s version. Stuff added. My family and friends like the simple version. When i first heard ITM, it was just a bunch of swirling notes and the tunes all sounded the same. Learned listening and playing have brought me to where I know the tunes, what kind of tunes they are and really enjoy them. My wife still thinks they are a bunch of swirling notes. BTW, never like opera, still don’t!
I agree also, Celtic Whistle Man. I bought Mary Bergin’s CD–I hardly ever listen to it because it makes me nervous. I bought Joannie Madden’s CDs, and Cherish the Ladies, and I can’t listen enough.
Ornamentation is icing on the cake, but I wouldn’t want to eat a cake that is all icing.
I agree also, Celtic Whistle Man. I bought Mary Bergin’s CD–I hardly ever listen to it because it makes me nervous. I bought Joannie Madden’s CDs, and Cherish the Ladies, and I can’t listen enough.
Ornamentation is icing on the cake, but I wouldn’t want to eat a cake that is all icing.
