Best starter wind for a 6yr old? Tonette?

World/Folk Flutes & Winds
1

A friend of mine, who plays Appalachian dulcimer and does Middle Eastern dance, emailed recently asking my advice on musical instruments for her young children. Her eldest is 6, and the mother is interested in getting her some semi-formal training on music, in order to get her on track for playing trad music later in life.

To diminish danger to furniture and eyeballs should it be chucked around, I was reluctant to recommend a brass-tube tinwhistle, and the rolled-metal conicals are prone to crushing if stepped on, heavy stuff atop them, etc. Dixie (I believe) makes a pretty serviceable plastic tinwhistle with prominently raised fingerholes, so that’s an option, though I’m not sure if a standard D is still a bit of a reach for a 6yr old.

Thinking further on durability, reach, etc. I started thinking about the various vessel-like fipple flutes, such as the Tonette and Flutophone. The nice thing about those is that, I believe, they have a wider breath window, so not prone to shrieking like a tinwhistle (which should be easier on the parents too). Might those be the best option at this stage?

The fingerings aren’t quite as transferable to other trad instruments, but that can be addressed in a few years. Personally, I think the Swedish bagpipe would be a reasonably accessible trad wind in the 8-10yr range, now that the reed issue can be avoided through synthetics that you only need to set once, and Seth Hamon’s synthetic sackpipa are only $385. Sackpipa is very low breath pressure too; I let a friend’s 8yr old niece mess with mine, and though she certainly wasn’t “playing” it, she had no problem blowing it full and squeezing air out of it, so I’d imagine a kid who knows tonette fingering and is disciplined enough to learn to squeeze her arm consistently would be able to play the pipes. There are some great clips on YouTube of an 8yr old playing NSP, which seems a far harder instrument.

In any case, any alternate suggestions to Tonette or Flutophone? I thought about ocarina, but since some of their fingerholes are side-by-side it seemed a bit less linear than the T/F. Any preference between Tonette and Flutophone for handling/sound/reach?

For learning, I figure if I get her two of them, any adult who can play any woodwind can probably figure out Tonette in a few minutes and teach basic melodies to a kid. That way my friend could do a skills-barter with a colleague, teach the other’s kid sewing or dance in exchange for a flautist/saxophonist/etc. dropping by to teach her daughter a simple wind instrument.

2

Ocarinas (Tonettes and Flutophones are a kind of ocarina) are very sensitive to breath pressure - they won’t squeak but you can easily blow them way out of tune, and if the kid doesn’t already have a good ear for pitch the educational result will be negative. They come in a zillion variations of fingering system, and the better ones are real musical instruments with unique capabilities, but they make no sense as a learner’s instrument.

I’ve taught recorder to kids that age and it worked, but I actually understand how to make a recorder sound good. Most people don’t. It makes sense to teach an instrument you or the mother likes and understands. That seems to be the whistle. There are no significant risks and they’re cheap enough that you can just get another one if it breaks. Makes sense to get at least two the same to start with, so the teacher and pupil can make the same sounds.

A plastic whistle with raised fingerholes will inevitably be an out-of-tune toy that, unlike a Tonette, can’t even be played in tune by an expert. Forget it.

3

I have a Tonette and a Flutophone in front of me (bought for “research” then put in the cupboard). Both have adjustable mouthpieces, to alter the pitch (slightly). The Flutophone is somewhat longer overall, 11" against 7", the fingering on the Tonette is slightly closer. Be aware if buying second-hand, the Tonette has closed “extra” holes as new. These may have been opened by a previous owner, which may cause problems when learning “from scratch”. To throw a proverbial feline amongst the pigeons, I prefer the tone of the “Fitchorn Song Flute” to either of the others. It looks somewhat like a Tonette, but is non-adjustable.
I don’t think I’d recommend any of them to a beginner who’s learning alone. I feel one of the cheaper “brand-name” plastic recorders would serve a student (who wants to learn) much better, Aulos and Hohner being personal favourites of mine.
If you really want a relatively “screech-proof” instrument of good quality but limited range, a Mountain Ocarina plays in a linear fashion, it’s just that the hands aren’t one below the other when playing, the fingering pattern is the same as a Tonette etc. I also own two Mountain Ocarinas, one in each key … I’d still recommend a recorder, with a Clarke Sweetone whistle a close second :wink:

4

Congratulations Jack on teaching someone that young to play a recorder. Besides Mozart, I thought this would be beyond anyone. I was going to recommend Kazoos.

5

I don’t have any hard numbers, but my impression is that over the last 25 years or so Elementary Music Education programs in the USA have gone over to the recorder for a wind instrument. Certainly German, UK, Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese elementary schools are heavily vested in recorders. It does seem to be an instrument that young children can grasp, and it’s not necessarily an instrument that a child will pass thru and leave behind (1, 2). And maybe the kid won’t want to play ‘trad’ music when she grows up - you know, just a thought there. :smiley:

Anyway, for four and a half bucks, the fully chromatic Yamaha YRS-24B has pretty good intonation.

6

I tried teaching my almost 6 year old to play the whistle. Santa brought her a Generation High F. She doesn’t have the patience for it and loses interest after about 5 minutes when she realizes it’s not easy. Same for piano. I practice both whistle & piano daily so I thought she’d see me doing it and be motivated but so far that’s not the case. So I don’t push it I just figure we’ll try later.

This year she is doing a “atelier of intstruments” at the conservatory (we live in France). For those not familiar with this, it’s a public government-funded music school and almost every medium city has one. This year she will do:

harp
recorder
piano
cello
violin

I’m happy she’s saving cello & violin for later when she’ll be older. So she started the harp and she can find play some simple patterns. We’re working on Claire de la Lune. She has 30min instruction per week (in addition to 1hr solfege).

She told me she doesn’t like the harp. “It’s too hard”. I explained to her that the harp is easy compared to the other instruments she’ll learn.

I feel that for a child to learn an instrument they have to be very motivated. My oldest isn’t. I don’t want to push her because I fear she’ll resist more, but I do make her practice her harp homework because she was very lucky to get in this program which has a big demand and I don’t want her wasting this opportunity or the teacher’s time.

My youngest is 4 and she has a much better attention span. We did the first whistle lesson and she lasted 30 minutes. She has trouble covering the wholes (we started with B A G working on marry had a little lamb) but she did well, better than her older sister. So I plan to continue with her and see if her interest persists.

So I think it has more to do with the child’s interest & motivation than a particular instrument. At 6 a child is capable of playing the instruments I listed above. In Japan they start violin at 3 years old! So it comes down to what they want to play. If you can give them a choice it can help. In the conservatory we didn’t get to choose the 5 instruments. Another mother told me her daughter got percussion and doesn’t like it. So every child will be different.

So to answer the OP’s question: I think whistle is great if that’s what you play, if not recorder is great too. If the music schools here use it then it must be OK. If the child is interested in another instrument then that might be a better fit.

If anyone has any suggestions for how to get the children interest & motivated I’d love to hear.

One more thing: I’m really enjoying playing her harp! :wink:

7

My son has played that Dixie whistle you mentioned since he was 4. He also does well with a recorder, ukulele, but prefers drum kit.
I think whislte is better suited for kids than recorder since the fingering system is simpler, but more (well, easier) chromatic options come with recorder.

8

What are these “Dixie whistles” mentioned here?
I’ve never heard of them before, and Google doesn’t seem to know anything about them, either.

9

Probably the Dixie Fife made by GROVER MUSICAL PRODUCTS Inc. An inexpensive plastic whistle that has little to do with the south and is not a fife. I wonder if the raised finger holes would make the thing harder to play for small hands than something like a standard Oak whistle.

10

You can start a child with the Nine Note Method and go from there, you know, if they hook up with the whole making music thing.

JD

11

start … with the Nine Note Method and go from there,

  • interesting. This approach, as documented on the web-site, reflects my self-taught learning to a great degree, treating the baroque recorder more like a diatonic whistle initially.
12

That Nine Note Method looks like a terrific idea. Wish I’d had it available when I was teaching.

It’s the antithesis of the “Abracadabra” books commonly used in the UK, which use the same material for every instrument they cover, treating them all as keyboard surrogates with no account of their individual acoustic properties and ergonomics. Atrocious things.

13

Well, if we’re going to turn this into a thread to bash music instruction, yippee. Any book that I’ve seen, for any instrument (except the piano) that I’ve seen, start with lessons on what quarter and half notes are and then the first few lessons are just playing the same note but as quarter or half or whatever notes. I skip over those lessons. A person wants to learn to play a song. I feel better now. Thanks for asking.

14

Well, it’s also an introduction to reading music not just playing music. Actually playing the note seems a bit like overkill, maybe something like the way Bruce And Emmett’s Fifer’s and Drummer’s Guide introduces the concept. It gives most all of the things you need in the first few pages, and then moves to exercises.

15

Looks like they make a “Magic Flute” as well, without the raised holes (I think, from the photo).

http://www.grotro.com/catalog/products.php?toyName=magic

Not that I’m recommending either …

16

I think the Tonette would be good. I remember learning music on one of these in the third grade and it was not difficult at all. That was back in 1956. Since they are not expensive buy one if not for now it would be something to grow into. If it appears too difficult for a six year old , find something easier because if it turns out too difficult it will be discouraging for the student. I do not think it would be as big of a challenge as a recorder especially for a six year old.

Scottie

17

I know this thread is about winds, but my 6 year old is doing well learning to play some simple children’s songs on the harp. Harps are expensive though and fortunately ours is on loan from her music school. She has 1/2 hour per week and in just a couple months has learned a lot.

My 4 year old can play some simple stuff too. The harp seems easier for them than piano.

Next my 6 year old does recorder so that will be interesting.

18

Waldorf schools use recorders, but do not start with them. They start with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwVqhqAVIQ

The pentatonic scale is nice as pretty much anything you play sounds good.

…john

19

Hmm … so after watching this and doing some cursory Googling, I’m still wondering: what is a Choroi “flute”?

Is it just a penny whistle with a pentatonic tuning? Or something else?

Can I make it out of PVC as “easily” as a penny whistle? Wouldn’t mind making one or more for my kids, but I don’t really want to pay the prices I was seeing in my searches for “Choroi flute”.

20

What about a “Melody Harp” (or is that what she is borrowing already)?