Well as I said most people are still nice and friendly… it’s not like I’m stating that my generation is a bunch of thieving punks or anything like that. I’m just saying that they are extremely clueless and complacent. You would be shocked to see how much MTV, popular culture, and TV in general rule their values, thoughts and aspirations. Maybe the kids in my generation aren’t “bad” but they are clueless and blind to the “REAL” world around them and that is frightening. Basically at least half the kids are pigs… I mean disgustingly materialistic things that have attention spands of about 20 seconds and their heads so far up you know where that…
Anyways, like I said America is in real trouble and the thing that bothers me the most about my generation is that we are not and will not be prepared to meet the coming and existing problems… and that’s what I’m adressing. We are uneducation, uninformed, and underprepared. I don’t see cell phones and Hummers helping us out too much.
Somebody said that more people live outside the cities, than in? Bull, maybe before 1940 only 30% of the US pop lived in the cities but here and now in 2003 over 70% of the people live in large cities… why do you think California and New York have so many electorial votes?
And Rando, I dislike Dems as much as I do repubs but at this point anybody!!! is better than Bush. We need to get rid of the two parties and take down the establishment cause they are the ones at fault here… they are the reason people are so stupid and they are the ones who push this filth and values upon our society. They are the ones that want complacent people and people who shut up and consume without a thought in our heads. They are the problems…
Public schools are so confined by budget, and their need to shape decisions to avoid running contrary to any faction of their tax paying constituency, that it’s lucky they manage as well as they do. Like Andrea, I have considered home-schooling in the past, but never did. My 3 girls, all teens now, have done very well, and had many successes in public schools, but I do believe their sense of what’s important comes from home and church values, more than school.
My best insight into the impossible task we ask of public schools came from the process of identifying the causes (ADD and dyslexia) of my son’s (now 11) failure to do well there. Teachers and administrators almost stuttered and tripped over themselves in their inabilities to describe their viewpoints re his lack of progress–why? Because to have spoken freely would have provided us ammunition in a potential battle to force the public school system to pay for an expensive private education.
Of these 2 things I am certain:
Those people KNEW what the problem was, they just couldn’t state it.
They KNEW their resources were inadequate to meet his needs.
I do not really resent them. I know they were hamstrung by their job requirements. But a bit of me wishes that the public school system would just dissolve and we would have to send kids to school’s of our choosing. I’m well aware that doesn’t help those with limited financial resources…that’s why it’s too pat an answer. I don’t have the answer.
My kid goes to an excellent, but very pricey (Thanks Dad!) private school.
Every time the subject of the quality of education comes up, people start spouting the popular party line – i.e. throw more money at the problem.
Most per-capita school budgets of today, even when adjusted for inflation, are far higher than most school budgets of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Yet today’s schools can’t seem to teach basic fundamentals - readin’, writin’, and 'rithmatic. It couldn’t possibly be because schools today are spending too much of the budget on “social engineering,” attempting to mold children’s world-view and morals (or lack thereof), could it?
In Oklahoma, the art programs may be cut, but, in all but the smallest schools, the music programs have a certain degree of protection in that you’ve gotta have a band for the football team.
An interesting post and thread, sadly the same thing is happening north of your border here in Canada. Standardized curriculums and testing, the lack of money “for the extras.” music, art and sports, the lack of the public to pay anymore taxes and a provincial government who won’t release the purse strings.
As the newly appointed music librarian (which I have no formal training other than I play Irish music) I walk through the stacks and look at the generations of sheet music that no one is using or cares for. Music education seems to be optional and not needed to graduate. There are some high school bands that break the norm but only two sadly, and the teachers have to work bingos to get the money they need for music and instruments.
Forget about anyform of traditional or ethnic music, or even European classical music being taught, the music is relevant to only the age of the student, they don’t care about the old stuff.
The only saving thing is that one high school is set aside for the study of the performing arts but even that always gets the evil eye when it comes to yearly budgets.
I don’t see it getting better, everything and everybody is being measured to meet a standard that can’t be explained…a bland standard globalized culture.
To use an example from my local high school, all students are required to attend courses in diversity. While I don’t have a problem with my kids attending such a class, it does take away from time they could be learning something else, participatng in choir or band, etc. I also assume developing such a class took financial resources, teacher salary, curriculum development, etc. I would also guess most parents on this board would feel they’ve taught their kids much more about diversity through their actions as role models than a class could ever teach them.
I went to a AAAA high school, we had lasers in the science labs and a CAD/CAM plasma cutter in the metal shop as well as a full line of computerized tools for the auto shop. we also had kids that couldn’t read beyond a 3rd grade level in our english lit clasess. I was there at a strange time, it seemed to be a transition state for the music program, my sophomore year we had nice instruments and were taking charter busses with TVs in them for trips to the away football and basketball games, by my senior year most of the nice instruments we had were in bad condition with no money to fix them and parents with large vans were being asked to transport the kids to the football games because they couldn’t even pay the school district bus drivers overtime to do it. of course the football team got their charter busses still, but then at the time they wanted to make brock huard look good for the scouts.
I won’t go into my thinking on the “ills” of the public schools in my area - suffice it to say my kids attend parochial and private schools because the public school here couldn’t address their needs.
As for traditional music and such, my kids have been exposed to this from birth. They’ve attended festivals, heard me play it, heard CD’s, etc. played. And “traditional” can mean from any country.
My oldest (16) wanted country music for Christmas (and a black cow boy hat!). He can’t stand the “thumping bass ghetto rap” or whatever you want to call it. But he also likes listening to reggae and various diverse types of music.
My youngest (12) asked for classical music for Christmas because he uses it to study by (he has ADD and needs non-verbal music or his concentration is lost). But, in school, the first song his music teacher taught this year was “The Boatman”. He knew that one. Next was “Going to Cairo”. He knew that one, too.
There was once a performance at their gradeschool where a fellow musician brought an autoharp, guitar, banjo, mountain dulcimer, hammered dulcimer, concertina, and mandolin with him, and set them up along the stage. The youngest told another mom “We have all but two of those instruments at home.” This is also the kid that did “Whiskey 'Fore Breakfast” on the NOSEFLUTE for talent show 4 years ago!
I don’t look for the schools to totally TEACH my kids everything. Just as I’ve always supplimented their spelling, reading, math, and science, I suppliment their music.
I realize my kids are NOT the norm - but that’s ok.
I think that’s important, Missy, and it sounds like it works great within your family. I tried to supplement, but it became too much… the kids got up at 7 in the morning, were at school from 8-4, they would come home and have an hour to an hour-and-a-half of homework (in 2nd and 3rd grade!) because they were both in advanced classes, and they would have to be in bed by 8 in order to be in decent mood and health the next day. We never seemed to have any time to ‘supplement’-- when were they supposed to play and be kids, or participate in extracurricular stuff? It just got to be too much of a rat race for our family. Now that we homeschool, we have time to do it all-- my children can finally have time to do things like Scouts, etc. We have meditation time most mornings, we sing folk songs and get silly. I love it! My daughter just got her first guitar so I’m hoping that in the near future we’ll have guitar accompaniment for our singing sessions.
I think, as with most things, it varies with each individual and there never is one pat answer… but no matter which way you go, the more involved you are with your kids, the better off everyone is!
Whiole I find it refereshing that Slim Shady bumped rap up a couple of grades from Kindergarten level.. “I gots more crayons than you” etc. A 7 year old really shouldnt be hearing Slims music.
I remember singing John Denver songs in Kindergarten, I completely missed out on half of Barneys Reportiore.. I honestly thought that “wheels on the School Bus” was some junk that Barney came up with.
One of the troubles with our Schools, (at least in my area) is “Validated Test scores”. That is where ‘bad students’ are invited to ditch on test day, since their scores will not be included in the ‘validated scores’ anyway. The scores are much lower than the administrators want you to know about.. Test scores are just a number, and numbers mean even less when execs count on numbers for their salary. Its like any other time that numbers, and productivity are factored into an Execs salary. A lowlifte’ted exec can, and will tweak the numbers to their benefit. I think that testing should be suplimented with totaly surprise, person to person interviews with students.
One big problem there is I think that parents and educators are extremely worried the stuff they are teaching is not popular, not from the children’s own world/time [i.e. too old fashioned], missing relevance in their lives or boring or whatever and so they try to buy popularity by teaching popsongs in school.
Children however are children like they always were and if you sit them down to teach them any old song they will enjoy that, just because you sit down with them and sing. You have to create an environment in which they can enjoy music, most, if not all, children are keen to explore these things.
Just now a friend of us picked up my son to go somewhere, she told me how a friend of them [a singer/guitarplayer] was over there a while ago, sitting in the kitchen singing ‘Do you love an apple’ [a song the Bothy Band used to do]. Now my ten year old is a lovely little singer and one of the local singer taught him that song so as soon as your man started singing my son dropped the toys, ran down the stairs and sang with the guitar player, as our friend said dead-on and perfectly in tune. By the end of the day it only counts how you bring them to it, and it’s completely up to yourself to lead them there, create a setting where they can enjoy and explore music [and all sorts of other things ofcourse].
Here are some favorites of the kids I teach music to, grades 1-6:
Leatherwing Bat, This Land is Your Land, Grandfather’s Clock, Oh, Suzanna - Which they’ve heard done by the Byrds and by the Mormon Tab. Choir, Cindy, Wraggle-Taggle Gypsies, Home on the Range, I’ve Been Working on the Railroad, Waltzing Matilda & John Henry.
The kids really love these songs.
They can also tell you about the part the mandolin plays, as well as how solos are done, in Bluegrass music.
They have exposure to Gregorian chant, Rennaisance music, Baroque music, the classics, Christmas Music, Celtic.
I think one reason they like this stuff is because I have a regular home stereo with 12" speakers on the floor and Bose bookshelf speakers in the front. It lets them hear the music better than any sized boom box.
I tried to supplement, but it became too much… the kids got up at 7 in the morning, were at school from 8-4, they would come home and have an hour to an hour-and-a-half of homework (in 2nd and 3rd grade!) because they were both in advanced classes, and they would have to be in bed by 8 in order to be in decent mood and health the next day. We never seemed to have any time to ‘supplement’-- when were they supposed to play and be kids, or participate in extracurricular stuff? It just got to be too much of a rat race for our family. Now that we homeschool, we have time to do it all-- my children can finally have time to do things like Scouts, etc. We have meditation time most mornings, we sing folk songs and get silly. I love it! My daughter just got her first guitar so I’m hoping that in the near future we’ll have guitar accompaniment for our singing sessions.