Appropriate negative posts: A tutorial

Irish Flute
1

There’s a little controversy going on another C&F board about negative posts. I wrote this for that board, but I thought it might be useful to the other boards.



Ok. So, today it occurred to me that there might be a way to establish a guideline about negative posts that had not occurred before. Controversies about negative posting have occurred on other C&F boards. I have been accused of not liking negative posts. This is untrue. I really do think it is a good service for people to share a range of positive and negative opinions and positive and negative experiences with various products. Here are some examples:

Acceptable post: “I had difficulties with Maker X. He promised delivery in two months and, when I did not receive the product in four months, he did not respond to three emails…(etc.). When I got the product, I felt it was not suitable for me. The doo-hickey key was out of alignment and the walls were too thin, etc.”

Perfectly acceptable. It give details. It is not second hand. It is not vague. And, this is critical: it allows a discerning reader to decide for herself whether she would consider these to be things SHE would regard as a problem. She might not be bothered by late shipments. She might like her doo-hickey key out of line. She might like thin walls, etc.

Unacceptable post: “I’ve heard bad things about Maker X.”

It is vague, 2nd hand, and useless to the reader. It might lead people, unnecessarily and unfairly, to avoid Maker X. In the absence of information, people tend to assume the worse.

Unacceptable post: “I’ve had problems with this maker and I’m not prepared to go into details.”

Then, respectfully, don’t post. It’s unfair. It creates a negative impression which is wholly without support.

Acceptable post: “McFadden’s whistles require too much air for my taste, and the materials are a bit too inexpensive.”

It’s an opinion. It’s free speech. It gives the reader some information.

Unacceptable post: “McFadden’s whistles are crap.”

Ill-mannered, unfounded, unsupported, provocative and useless to the reader.

Does this help?

2

Brilliant as usual, Dale! I can’t think of anything to add to it. Can it stay always visible, or maybe always accessible through a link somehow?

Oh, and i just had to go and find out which board was the problem.
Darn pipers! :slight_smile:

3

From the very first, Acme whistles have
caused me nothing but misery.

4

But Dale, McFadden’s whistles ARE crap!!!

Hee hee, Sorry dude, I just couldn’t resist :stuck_out_tongue:

Loren

5

Well, Loren…you know…well…Ok, you’re right, McFaddens are crap. So are Acmes.

Dale

6

Shouldn’t the same guidelines hold true for what may be considered ‘positive’ posts like:
‘Acme flutes are great’?
It is unsupported, unfounded, and one could argue it is equally ill-mannered as well because it isn’t backed up with facts, experience etc.
Just another ‘bold assertion’ just as ‘Acme flutes suck’ is.

Maybe the issue isn’t whether something is considered positive or negative but more to do with the presence or absence of facts, experience, theory, assumptions, reasons, etc. to support any claim or opinion being posted.

If I assert ‘Acme flutes suck’ and that is all I say and it bothers you, then why not post something yourself and ask ‘why do you feel that way’ or ‘what lead you to that opinion?’ Or better yet if you want to appear really really nice and polite psot this: ‘I understand how you feel and I feel your pain, but that seems unsubstaniated, could you please eloborate and perhaps provide me with some reasons as to why you feel that way so that I may further this bonding experience I am having with you?’

Or just simply ignore it 'til it goes away.


BTW, Acme flutes don’t suck they just blow

7

Part of the problem is that if I say ‘Acme flutes suck,’
as they do, it’s inflammatory. Friends and relatives
of Acme flutes go ballistic and write incendiary posts
back. I respond to these posts, outlining their author’s
descent from baboons, and so it goes. We done
been there.

Basically, inflammatory postings are a bad idea.

Also there are potential legal consequences for
the people who run the board.

But the point is well taken that unsupported
praise or blame is uninformative. Best

8

Jim,


Can’t “acme flutes are great” inflame al lthose who know (or think) otherwise. Can’t that be construed as negative by that class of people?

Maybe unsupported assertions (good or bad) are inherently inflamatory by their nature. The inflammation may not be due to ‘positive’ or ‘negative’ but by ‘presence’ or ‘absence’ of supportive facts etc.

rama

9

ACME anvils are pretty good. One would think that most of the tools and expertise used in anvil turning would translate easily to flutemaking.

10

Yes, very good sentiments. Always much better in life to encourage positive remarks–something the Americans have taken as a cultural imperative. But if you have French people posting, bitching about things and with emotion, is not considered bad face or rude.

Let the good times roll, this is a free speech forum and those who cannot tolerate bad comments about their products should improve their products or service or whatever. Deal with it. Life goes on, and there are more important things than worrying about disparaging remaks.

Good taste and cultural education exist because people practice it. Those who don’t, just don’t and they (or their karmas) suffer in other ways because of it. Perhaps we should teach people how to be more resiliant when people say their flutes or whistles suck–all of us, afterall, could have a rifle stuck in our mouths in Iraq or Norther India if the seed came from another direction. We are spoiled.

Get thick skin. And of course, heated discussions with imbeciles increase the number of posts in the forum. Better for advertising. :slight_smile:

G

11

I have to go with rama on this one. I’ve seen many people gravitate toward flutes I personally found lacking because a claim or three is that they are great, without much beyond that. This doesn’t mean that these flutes should not be praised if they are liked or found useful or affordable, but, as there are subtle shades of what great (or bad) means, depending on where you’re at, musically speaking, it should always be shared where the opinion is coming from. While hearing something is great is not as offensive as hearing something is terrible, it is often as equally misleading.

But none of this has much to do with forum-decorum; blanket statements might be misleading, but the forum allows for the follow-up questions (“Really? Why is Acme great? The one I tried exploded in my face and missed the $5@*!! bird on the fiddle completely.”) Even when we elaborate, we misunderstand each other to one degree or another (define “takes more air”, “harder/softer embouchure”, or even what loud or soft, honk or bark means).
I guess what I’m on about is that if someone does make a blanket statement on a flute or other product, bad OR good, they should be taken to task on it. If they can’t verify their statement, they should be hounded for all eternity by a coyote with an apparent blank-check policy account at the Acme company.
Gordon

12

Yes, ‘Acme flutes are great’ can inflame people,
but long experience suggests that it’s less
likely to do so, or to do so as much, as
‘Acme flutes suck.’ The responses to the
former tend to be reasonably moderate,
in fact (e.g. ‘Well I gotta disagree with you
on this one’), to the latter much less so.

You might do a search (if it still works) on
‘Why don’t you get yourself a real whistle (flute)?’ Best

13

Everybody is right as far as their comments are intended. If you’re looking from a legal point of view, then unsupported negative comments can have consequences. Unsupported positive posts can also have consequences.

I look at it as, we’re all here to learn from each other and to help each other out. So the more information you give to support your points, the better. Better if I say, “I’m a rank beginner and I can’t fill a Pratten-style flute,” than, “Prattens suck,” or even, “I think Prattens suck.”

14

Thanks “G”, I think you’ve put things in proper perspective. Barring outright slander, death threats, and having rifles stuck in my mouth, etc. etc. , If I get inflamed, that’s my problem, particuliarly if it is over something as life threatening as ‘Acme sucks’. OMG! - Time to get a life.

Good point as well Gordon - As an old friend once told me: “Wisdom is in the question” - a process which can let each reader decide for themselves how they feel about a particuliar issues. People aren’t idiots - if it quacks like a duck, walks likes a duck, plays a flute like a duck, it’s probally a…

r

p.s. Big Brother is watching you

15

Wow! Acme flutes suck?! Really? :astonished:

Where can I get my hands on one?

None of my rotten flutes work unless I blow!



:laughing: :laughing:

Doc

16

Concerning the legal dimension, maybe there’s
a way for Dale to get sued over ‘Acme whistles are the earth
and the sky!’, though I’m not sure I know how;
but the posting ‘Acme whistles suck!’ is more likely to
result in legal consequences for the board, surely.

Information is good–no doubt about it.
It’s helpful in positive reviews, and fair
to those criticized in negative ones.
Among other virtues…

By the way, my friend Patrick bought
one of the new Acme plywood flutes.
He got a splinter taking it out of the
box, his hand became infected, then
his arm, which was amputated last
Thursday. On the other hand (if I may
put it that way), the low D really
honks, plywood has its possibilities,
though I’m afraid this is all lost
on Patrick now.

17

I have simply decided to start taking large quantities of anti-inflammatories, seems to be working so far… :party:

Loren

18

Tart cherry juice concentrate, avialiable over
the internet, works, I’m convinced, as an
anti-inflammatory. It doesn’t make you
sick, either, and it tastes good.

You know, there seems to be good research
showing that people who take Ibuprofen
regularly have substantially lower
rates of Alzheimers. I would very
much like to die with my wits on. Best