At Dale’s request, I’m posting to all the forums a discussion we’ve had regarding the legal implications for him and Rich as board owners/operators.
Please take the time to consider Dale’s and Rich’s position in this and the potential harm that could come to them.
Hey Dale
I saw your post and it reminded me of some legal information I had read
regarding libel, slander, etc. and message boards and wanted to share with
you.
Of course, this law is still evolving and being decided in the courts almost
as we speak. But, the recent rulings and legal opinions see a message board
similarly to a publication for public consumption. As such, the
moderator/owner serves as a publisher. By allowing libelous or slanderous
statements on the board, in essence, it would be akin to publishing a
magazine or newspaper with an article saying so-and-so did, or is…
Possibly think of the National Enquirer for really blatant examples. I
think this may be the reason some boards forbid the discussion of makers,
products, etc. Another example would be a member’s outburst to a maker stating that
their whistle’s are garbage (or whatever negative description you wish). The maker could claim that was libelous and bring
suit against the outspoken member and name you and Rich as a parties to the action for distributing the post. Would they win? It would be decided by the courts, or in a settlement. But the point is, you would have to hire an attorney to protect yourself. That could be thousands of dollars.
Ugly situation all this. I can see the maker’s point, as it can negatively
impact their livelihood, I can also see the person’s belief that they have
the right to speak their mind. But, I suppose we don’t have the right to
intentionally harm. Ah, if only society was not so litigious.
HI all. As I understand it, You can safely say anything you like about anything, so long as you state it as an opinion.
If you say a particular whistle or flute is total garbage as if it was fact, you could be in trouble.
If, however, you say that in your own personal opinion a particular whistle or flute is total garbage and a waste of money, you should be safe.
Everyone still has a right to their own opinion, and as long as we all present our opinions as just our opinions, and not as stated facts, we should be OK. (I had this titbit of legalese from my sister who is a journalist)
Not that I disagree with any of this, and I fully intend to abide by all forum rules, but isn’t a statement made in a forum such as this, by default, an opinion? Why would it be necessary to clarify that an opinion, is, in fact, an opinion?
Now, if I claimed that such-and-such flutes actually explode if the 3rd octave G is attained, and that this make, or anything above the 3rd octave D on this flute, should be avoided at all costs, I can see that this might impact on sales and result in a lawsuit.
That said, personally, in my opinion, I love the Nine Inch Nails Celtic album, and I am listening to their Christmas CD even as I write this.
Seasons Greetings, everyone.
Opinions are not legally protected in all cases. (This from my 20+ years as investigative reporter who has to be pretty careful all the time about what he writes).
There is legal standing to sue when the person being attacked is not a public figure, regardless if the attack is opinion. It merely has to be injurious and it holds as libel (printed matter) or slander (spoken). More specifically, if opinion completely disregards the facts, even when based on the assertions of others, it is not protected and can be subject for suit.
So to say Rudall & Rose (presuming they were alive) make junk flutes in my opinion, that would be based on my own assertion. However, if R&R could show my opinion was injurious to their reputation (presuming it was a stellar one), then they could sue me and, quite likely, win. Of course, by then the damage is done.
Libel law is always changing. Sad that it puts opinions in check sometimes. But, conversely, a good thing since it does protect from people’s unmerited slashes and makes opinions more carefully thought out.
As whistle and flute builder, I refrain from making comments about other flutes.
I will make constructive comments, like “try this idea” and I think it’s okay to make positive comments about other peoples products. For example: I have made positive comments about Dave Copely’s Flutes, I personally know him and think well of his work.
Civility is the key to this, let’s not have any ‘Rocksto’ like attacks around here and everything should be okay.
Colorful metaphor given after a certain brands name do not contribute to useful information. It only make people angry.
I agree. The point is civility.
The lack of that actually endangers
the survival of the board in
its present form, I believe–at least when
it concerns a whistle maker or
a store.
I agree with David’s comments. I might also add, that as a long-time elected official, with first hand experience, both in federal court (representing a govermental agency) and in writing personnel policies that are intended to withstand the test of court, I think it would be fair to say that anyone has a right to ask any question they’d like, e.g., “why are you acting like an idiot?” or “am I the only one who thinks those (?) flutes play like the foul word you know I am thinking of?”
The last example combines an insinuation within a question.
Another common trick is to offer a trifecta of sorts by taking the last combination and putting it in a third party setting, e.g., “why does Mrs. C. Kindergarten keep saying that I’m not the only one who thinks those (?) flutes smells like the foul word you know she’s thinking of?”
While this certainly seems disingenuous, it might work better for some people who are otherwise constantly flirting on the edge of litigation, and never give a second thought about being a little more civil in their statements.
[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2003-01-04 16:52 ]