This is a hard one, and has always been a problem of some sorts for me. A while back somebody posted about switching back and forth between thier sax and whistle and the effects they have on each other. I picked up my clarinet that had been neglected for seven years and played, just to see. I haven’t put it down sence. The whistle had indeed helped my clarinet and just today I picked up the whistle for the fun of it. To my surprise I found it fresh but limited. I know myself well enough to relise I’m going through a metamorphose.
My problem is dealing with the scale. I come from a jazz back ground long before trad Irish. Chromatic vs. Diatonic. Instrument wise, considering the melodic possibilty in a dexterous manner the whistle is limited like a harmonica.
Has anyone else gone through this and how have you delt with it. I realy like the whistle but after playing Monk on my horn, the whistle seems bland. I relise your heart has to be in it and right now I’m just not there. I would realy like to hear some voices on this.
I used to play clarinet at school, though I haven’t touched one in 20 years (scream, is it that long??).
The sound is completely different, and just not suited to Irish music (I’m prepared to be put straight on this). The whistle is like a clarinet without all the extra bits to get your polishing cloth stuck on, suited to the simple melodies present in Irish music, but I wouldn’t expect to see one in a big Jazz band.
For the last 3 or so years I’ve been going through an Irish music phase, and I can’t see that changing, but if I ever get big on Jazz or classical music again, I’ll probably be shelling out for a second hand clarinet before you can say “Humphrey Littleton, meet Acker Bilk”.
I’d say Martin’s hit it Jack. For me, celtic music is the be all and end all - before, I was into Beethoven, Mahler, et al, yet the simpler, diatonic, pentatonic modal celtic tunes have just grabbed me. My heart is in it and even though the classics are more musically complicated they don’t grab me now.
I suggest you have an “Irish day” and a “jazz day”, and love each type for what they are without comparing or seeing what each lacks in comparison. I love rugby and cricket, so some days I watch rugby, some days I watch cricket.
Nick
PS On my last visit to Bernard Overton, he played a seriously mean jazz solo on one of his low Fs! (Bernard is a big jazz fan and talented boogie woogie pianist into the bargain)
Whatever turns you on, and our blessings whatever way you go. But before you give up on the whistle and on Irish music, try listening to all the available recordings of Willie Clancy on both whistle and pipes. He was note-bender extraordiaire!
I think I mentioned this in a prior thread, but I bought a whistle for my Dad a few years ago when I first got my fiddle. I got the fiddle with the intent of learning Irish tunes, but couldnt get into it. In March I was visiting my folks and saw the whistle lying there with a good layer of dust, so I picked it up along with the Geraldine Cotter tutorial and started whistling.
Then, what, about a month and half or two months ago I picked up the fiddle again (last session had three flutes and three whistles vs. two fiddles, one guitar and two Mandos–way too many whistles) and to my amazement I was finding tunes and playing by ear the tunes I had learned on whistle. Now 75% of my playing and practicing time is on fiddle.
So I guess the whistle transition worked for me as well, but I stayed in the tradition (though I will eventually give bluegrass and old time a try just for fun and variety)
Funny, I was driving home from a session on Sunday listening to Gloria Estefan’s album Abiendos Puertas and was wondering about how cool it would be to penetrate the latin music genre with whistle, maybe someday mix up a nice batch of Whistle Salsa (What, Neeeeew Yoooork City?!!??!!??)and I saw Phil’s post about Salsa Celtica. I havent heard them, but it seems to me the only reason whistle hasnt shown up more in latin music is they have no idea it even exists.
There is obviously a considerable cultral divide between the Pure Drop and La Musica Latina, and my brain overloads even thinking about trying to meld Irish tunes with a good latin beat (Im sure it coudl be done, though not sure what you’d get…) but its also an interesting concept to take the whistle and simply cross over completely into the salsa/latin genre and see what you can do with the whistle on their terms.
So here I learn whistle only after leaving Los Angeles…and its a long drive to Miami.
[ This Message was edited by: dazedinla on 2002-07-30 08:31 ]
I too play both clarinet and whistle, with varying degrees of success. I always found it diffucult to stick my clarinet in the sun visor of my car, and it’s very awkward to walk around with a clarinet stuck in my back pocket. But seriously, they both have their advantages. and Yes, I too found that there is “skill crossover”. Playing the whistle helped my clarinet playing, and having played the clarinet made it much easier to learn the whistle.
Jack: Thank you for a truly thought provoking question…
IMHO, the whole thing revolves around the ‘apples vs. oranges’ syndrome. My instrumental training revolves around piano - have played it for 50+ years…from classical through jazz to rock and roll…
At a craft fair in 1989, I discovered the hammer dulcimer. I now work with a twin hammer dulcimer band - and continue to work with piano/synthesizers et.al.
The piano and hammer dulcimer are related, as are the whistle and clarinet - but in my mind there has never been any type of competition between them, benign, or otherwise. I have never assigned any sort of value judgement to either. They simply exist within their own musical space, and I enjoy each for what it is, and for what it gives to me and to others.
Is either limited in relation to the other? Not really…I suppose it all comes down to what is the intended use. In terms of use for my family, my Subaru station wagon is more useful than a Ferrari…
For whatever reason, I have always been able to separate the two instruments and to use them and enjoy them for their own merits…It does not have to be one or the other…I hope you are able to find that kind of peace in your present thoughts.
Cheers.
Byll
Jack,
I come to whistling as a classical flute player, in other words someone used to easy chromaticism. I found it odd to play a diatonic instrument at first, but as I’ve started to seriously focus on Irish music on the whistle, the lack of chromaticism has ceased to be an issue. In fact, given that most Irish music generally requires no accidentals, the diatonic nature of the whistle is a plus. I still play the flute seriously and love that instrument and the music, but playing Irish trad on a whistle is a wonderful change of pace and very refreshing in many ways. I don’t play Debussy on the whistle, nor do I play jigs on the silver flute…each instrument is wonderfully suited to its own repertoire. Enjoy the best of both worlds!
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On 2002-07-30 13:05, jmssmh wrote:
Dosn’t most things sound bland after playing MONK.
Yes!!- Monk was,and still is one of my all-time musical hero’s.by my reckoning he has to be in the top three 'Jazz composers’Just to be controversial(or not),i’d name the other two as Ellington and Mingus.to be really controversial,i could say that he is(or perhaps,at long last ‘was’ one of the most underrated jazzmen,my other two forgotten heroes? soprano saxman Steve Lacy and clarinettist/sax/flutist Jimmy Giuffre) Having said that,i hadn’t heard any monk for ages(nothing to play my old vinyl on!),until yesterday,when i went to a shop pick up a Packie Byrne c.d. i,d ordered.I can’t recall which tune it was now,but i recognised it as a track from the bluenote 1947 sessions- once a ‘jazzbuff’…LOL! -which reminds me of another 'jazz’hero,LOL Coxhill(great British sax player-a complete original!)Anyway,many moons ago,i used to play alto sax(self-taught)so naturally gravitated to ‘jazz’.Trouble is,‘conventional’(note inverted commas)jazz is,i think, very much a ‘band’ music,due to its harmonic nature,i.e, you really need other people to play with for it to sound right,unless you are a pianist.On the other hand,Trad. Irish music played by a solo instrument(to paraphrase L.E. MCullough)reliant,as it is,on the melodic line,is an entity in itself.Ihave considered trying the alto in an irish context-nothing startlingly new there-posibly modelling my playing along the lines of pipes,though not as 'pseudo-pipes’if you get my drift…just a thought.I don’t suppose my neighbours would appreciate it though!!
The wisdom on this board is simply fantastic. Thank you all for the replies. I guess it boils down to the old spice of life thing. The whistle-it is what it is, and enjoy it for that. Nick mentioning Bernard Overton playing jazz solo’s on his whistle is a good reminder that you can take an instrument as far as you can concieve it’s possibilities. No one thought to play like Charlie Parker until he came along and showed us all it was possible.
Martin, I pick up tunes all over the jazz catolog, anywhere from Dixie to modern, but mostly it’s the freedom you allow yourself to strech out melodies and improvise within and against the tunes structure. Coltrane made a huge jazz hit out of My Favorite Things, any song could be up for grabs.
If I were to single out who I study the most, it would be Thelonious Monk. his quality is very consistent. The one word that I can use to discribe his music is “Playful” in all respects of the word.
Kevin, You mentioned two huge influences for myself. Giuffre and Lacy. I was fortunate enough to see Lacy play solo on the west coast about 10 years ago. I can’t think of any other musician that has taken thier instrument as far as he has. He is a true pioneer, and one of three musicians to ever recieve the McArthur “Genius” award/grant for $300,000.. By the way, some of his major works are being reissued on vinyl. There seems to be an underground movement in the works!!
I could chat all day about this stuff but it is a Whistle forum, so I’ll leave it at that. Thanks again, you all made me feel better about the matter.
BTW Loren, I think I’d faint if I played a flute I’m all about resistance these days.
Jack “lockjaw” Orion
Edited to include: DazedinLA, a place to start would be to check out Los Incas, Los Calchakis, and Los Chacos. I have an album by all three of these groups. They are french pressings that date back to 68’, the music is trad latin with the six hole whistle playing lead melody. Great stuff.
[ This Message was edited by: jackorion on 2002-07-30 23:03 ]
I’m all about resistance these days.