I have just finalized my first “true” whistle making project (true meaning tube and fipple and all here), an aluminum low D and the Cnat fingering came out to be oxxxxo. I can use ´naturally half holing and even oxxxoo in some passages of music without the music suffering too much, it all depends of the melody and meter but oxxooo is way too sharp even for short notes. After reading a pile of Cnat postings here my question to you whistling folks is:
When it comes to playing the music, which fingering is the most preferred one for Cnat? Does this sound like voting…
I already found out that there are tunes where oxxxxo gives nice transition to high d oxxxxx and high e xxxxxo and there are similar benefits in other Cnat fingerings like oxxooo is a quickie one hander.
I vote with Bloomfield #cos it’s what I use/works best on most of my whistles, so is thus most familiar. I use oxo xxx on flute, but just to be annoying my piccolo is best with oxx ooo. The bottom line is: use what’s best on the particular instrument plus occasional contextual shortcuts are fine if not prominently out of tune (e.g. on flute I sometimes use oxo xxo in alternation with 2nd 8ve E). If you have a kit of different whistles (and flutes or other instruments), you have to practice being adaptable.
I use OXXOOO 99% of the times. I got used to that fingering so I find very hard to change to another. Anyways, that fingering works well on a lot of whistles, so, there is no problem with it.
In slower tunes (waltzes / airs) and on certain whistles, I use OXXXOO or OXXXOX.
I started with OXOOOO then read here that this was wrong and I should use OXXOOO so I used that right away. Like within a few weeks of learning. I didn’t want to pick up a habit I couldn’t change.
Unfortunately, my flutes and my low whistle and my fife and one of my high whistles prefer OXOXXX. That means I got stuck with a bad habit I just can’t seem to change.
I try to use OXOXXX on Trip to Pakistan at least since the C naturals are so pronounced, but I’m afraid it’s a lost cause for me. Thank goodness I’m not a real musician.
Yeppo, the fingering for a given whistle is to be found out and there are about one or two plus half hole alternatives for any whistle but…
I want to turn this around… if you are dreaming of ordering a whistle, what would be the optimal Cnat fingering, what would you want it to be in all the whistles (well this is utopia …eh)? Perhaps this was my original question.
OK, if a vote is called for, I’d vote for oxx xox because that seems to be the commonest, most in tune, clearest toned on most cylindrical and quite a few conoid whistles, regardless of whether their designers/makers have deliberately taken potential cross fingering of accidentals into account or not - i.e. it is available “naturally” ( ) on most whistles. It also has good scale, stepwise and “ornamentation” fingering continuity/facility.
That said, as a fluter it would be nice if more whistles fingered Cnat best with oxo xxx as that is even better for fingering sequences and “ornaments”. Funnily enough, my tunable Susato high D (an older one, before they gave the models silly names) which I never play 'cos I don’t like the sound, works best with oxo xxx, unusually among cylindrical whistles.
If you have instruments that prefer a certain fingering, it is FORTUNATE if you know what those fingerings are. There are many steps to becoming a “real” musician and one of them is the good habit of knowing your instrument and playing it rather than playing out an idea about it.
OXXXOX where the whistle allows it (most). That is my most natural fingering. OXXOOO on the odd few. OXXXXO on my Hoover. Half holing on everything, depending on what I’m playing, and exclusively on the Sindt as I also cannot find an in tune cross fingering, no matter how I adjust my breath control.
I tend to use OXXXOX most of the time but I am also making sure I can play OXXOOO as well. I also try a bit of half-holing but that’s a bit more of a problem for me. As a beginner, I pondered this for a while, but decided that I would try to familiar with many C nat options as down the track I may need to use different options for different whistles and I did not want to get stuck.
A bit of short term pain for long term gain (I hope!)
As I said, I’m very used to OXXOOO. I can’t understand how a person who is used to a specific fingering can change it so easily in jigs or reels without messing up.
For example, when I play “Banish Misfortune”, which has quite a lot of Cnat, I play them OXXOOO in all my whistles. I haven’t checked the tuning of them, but they sound well to my ears (in some whistles better than in others).
If I try to do another fingering (i.e. OXXXOX, in those whistles where OXXOOO sound a bit worse), I mess up because my muscle memory try to do it OXXOOO.
I find it impossible to change it in ‘fast’ tunes.
I’ve started tweaking my cheapies to match my personal beath pressure schedule. On several whistles (Feadog, Generation, Walton) I carved out the top hole so the C# would play in tune with the same breath pressure as the B below it and the D above it. I did this without checking the effect on the Cnat (novice whistler morphs into novice tweaker). Interestingly, all three now pay Cnat in tune with OXX XXO. On these whistles, OXX OOO and OXX XOO are way sharp and OXX XOX is annoyingly sharp. FWIW.
Commonest by what measure? I’d say that oxx ooo is far more common, by the simple measure of how many people do it that way most of the time, which in my experience is nearly everybody you’d meet out and about at sessions everywhere. Cheers,
Quite right to question the parameters, Rob. We certainly have a possible dichotomy over “best”: do we mean “handiest in actual playing regardless of sound” or do we mean “best tone and intonation when tested”, either abstractly or in playing context? I think this thread is primarily (but not exclusively) about acoustical qualities and technical possibilities, not playing habits and preferences. Likewise with how “common” a particular fingering possibility is.
To clarify, I wasn’t talking about what most players do, but what seems to work best on the majority of whistles. Yes, that is an “in my experience” observation, but I have tried a good few (!) different whistles over many years and usually check out precisely this question on any whistle I pick up (equivalent thing on flutes too). It’s not a scientific survey, but it is fairly empirical and more than just an impression or a pre-judged, value laden preference. I fully recognise the fact that a clear majority of both flute and whistle players use oxx ooo (because they were taught to and most don’t question it, seemingly, or, like Martin/Bothrops, find it harder to change than they feel it is worth) regardless of whether it is actually, demonstrably, the best in tune, strongest toned fingering available on any particular instrument. I’m quite happy to admit when a fingering other than my own familiar playing preference is clearly functionally the best. However, I fail to understand why many competent players may insist on sticking with a fingering that can be shown empirically to be deficient on their own specific instrument when a better is often available and has other advantages and only requires a small affort to adapt to.
This is digressing a touch from this thread’s point, but to further clarify, I have also argued elsewhere for the playing advantages of oxo xxx and oxx xox over oxx ooo in sequential fingering changes and ornamentation, but always taking into account which works best on a particular instrument, and also admitting that there are instruments (my own piccolo is one) on which oxx ooo is the best and necessary fingering for Cnat at the top of the 1st octave. As my previous posts should make clear, I use different fingerings on different instruments because I try to play each as best I can.
I do think that if a careful survey of a selection of whistles was undertaken, several players checking the alternative cross fingering possibilities of each against a tuner and a composite result being compiled giving both the best absolute intonation as measured and also the players’ subjective assessment of best sound (best in tune may not have best tone!), that oxx xox would almost certainly prove the commonest optimum fingering on cylindrical bore whistles. Anyone want to set about it, oh ye whistle collectors?
P.S. I fully admit, it does frustrate me when some people insist that oxx ooo is the one-and-only-authentic-traditional ITM-way when it is often sharp (on whistles, more often flat on flutes), weak, awkward… regardless that most (and many very fine players) use it most! Why?
Those four-fingered Cnat fingerings are all well and good in their place, but in a sprightly jig or reel they can be totally useless. Any tune with a quick B-C-B sequence, Queen of the Rushes, say, will be hard to execute cleanly with that many fingers in play. In fact, I’ve never noticed anyone trying it that way at speed. That doesn’t mean there isn’t some masochist out there waving his digits about…
) on most whistles. It also has good scale, stepwise and “ornamentation” fingering continuity/facility.