An idea for a flute (fipple, rim-blown, side-blown...) with whole-tone tuning

Whistle
1

Hello everyone!

I’m new here.

I need some help.

Sorry about my English, I’m using tools to translate.

I think the post falls into this category, since it’s also about whistle, right?

I understand very little about flute construction and how flutes work.
I’m using calculators to get an idea.
I’m researching to better understand hole placement, hole size, etc.

I’m trying to build a flute (fipple, rim-blown, side-blown…) with whole-tone tuning. Instead of a major scale, I would use the whole-tone scale. I think this gives me a sense of symmetry in fingering and in thinking intervallically (I may be mistaken). I know that people say it’s difficult to play using half-holes, especially for playing fast, etc. It’s just an experiment.

I’m thinking of 6 holes arranged like this, starting from G4 (it could be another note), for example:

X = closed hole
O = open hole
/ = half-hole

G4: X X X X X X
G#4/Ab4: X X X X X /
A4: X X X X X O
A#4/Bb4: X X X X / O
B4: X X X X O O
C5: X X X / O O
C#5/Db5: X X X O O O
D5: X X / O O O
D#5/Eb5: X X O O O O
E5: X / O O O O
F5: X O O O O O
F#5/Gb5: / O O O O O
G5: O O O O O O (?)

And so on.

It’s possible to do this, right? Just change the intervals, right?

Fingering:
Half-hole = semitone, full hole = whole tone.
The second octave would have the same fingering as the first, right?
Would I need to figure out the rest of the fingerings, alternative fingerings, cross-fingerings?

Would the holes be the same size?
Would a thumb hole be useful?

I searched online and only found whole-tone pan flutes (which are very interesting, by the way).

I would appreciate suggestions (adding more holes, etc.).

Sorry for my ignorance about the subject.

I’m not sure if it makes sense.

What do you all think?

Thank you!

2

Is it possible? Definitely. The toneholes would not be all same size or uniformly separated. You would need to work out the dimensions by trial-and-error, or using a whistle calculator. TWJCalc and WIDesigner could both do it.

You might get G5 with either OOOOOO or OXXXXX. The fingering in the second octave might not be the same all the way up, particularly when you get to G6.

Would it be feasible to play? I’m not so sure. I think I’d find it very confusing.

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It will certainly work, but the player would need to be very highly skilled to use it with just about every tune having lots of half-holed notes in it. There may be some players who’ve lost multiple fingers in an industrial accident who could find some version of it to be their only real option. You can also use a whole tone scale as a starting point for developing a chromatic whistle as it will help you see which of the in-between notes might benefit most from having their own dedicated hole.

1 Like
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I think you could learn by trying.

I would make a point of using inexpensive materials that are easy to work with, like PVC pipes. If you have access to a drill press, that would be pretty easy to do.

My other recommendation would be to do these at first as side blown flutes, because then all you have to do is the one hole instead of making a whistle head. Then when you get your hole spacing figured out to your satisfaction, you could make it as a whistle. There’s a lot of information out there for making the whistles and side blown flutes out of PVC pipe.

There’s a lot of controversy within the research community about this, but some people propose that the earliest flutes ever found were based on the diatonic scale. If true, wow!

Have fun, and share with us what you learn.

Jemtheflute mentioned this fella in an earlier post: The "Low-Tech" Whistle: How to make a PVC whistle

5

Thank you all. I will take all of this into consideration.

1 Like
6

Or make it as an end-blown flute, then you can simply build a head onto it later, which is exactly what I do with quenas.

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7

I’m not understanding what the advantage of the design would be.

It would be useful for one thing, and one thing only: playing songs based on the whole tone scale (which are almost nonexistent). For every other purpose, it would be inferior to pretty much any other design.

Every single major or minor key would be extremely difficult. SOME keys might be very marginally easier than they are on a G diatonic whistle, but that wouldn’t be worth the trade off.

And if you want something better at playing in any key fairly easily, there are lots of better designs, such as the recorder’s fingering system, or the Ukrainian sopilka’s.

All the same, I’d probably get one. :stuck_out_tongue: It’d be fun to doodle on. Maybe you could use it for prog rock or something.

8

Just stopping by to say that I found some references to whole-tone tuning: 6-hole NAF and Anasazi-7 tuned NAF.

https://www.lewpaxtonprice.us/details.htm