I need another hole in my whistles like I need the proverbial hole in my head–but that discussion did make me think. Allow me to share and slap me if I am being silly (and plug up that hole in my head while you are at it).
If I ever get around to trying to make my own whistle, I’m so interested in the alternative scales of non-western music, that I would try alternative tone hole placements for these scales. I have seen pentatonic whistles available and this isn’t what I am talking about. It is too easy to play pentatonic phrases on a diatonic instrument to need a pentatonic whistle. What I am talking about: what I’ve heard called the gypsy scale, like C D Eb F G Ab Bnat C (look at the interval and a half jump from Ab to Bnat). Or, a whole tone scale. Or, from the bell note, ascending in the lydian mode, (in C this would mean F# instead of F natural), a scale produced on the bansuri by assigning the third hole down as the root note. Or, from the bell note, ascending in the aeolian mode.
Why would I want to try whistle tunings like this? I already own a Persian ney, a Turkish kaval, a primitive shakuhachi, even a concert boehm. But my favorite flute design is the humble whistle (six hole fipple flute). I am new to half-holing but like it for Cnat, Bb, G#,and the high D# on my sop D. I’m just very curious about what I could do with these alternative tuning whistles. I probably just need someone’s voice of reason rather than to invest in the time and frustration of producing these alternative tunings myself, but . . .
Lisa
lisa,
To hear how this sounds simply tape over the top half of each hole except G(4th hole)on a D whistle.You will have D Eb F G Ab Bb and C …this sounds more Persian market place than Gypsy to me.Good luck! Mike
Yes, Mike,
Maybe I just need to tape that hole in my head! Really, thanks for the input–I always enjoy reading your replies in this forum. I need to add that I’m afraid I don’t sound like I am satisfied with all the beautiful melody possibilities that the ionian tuning offers–indeed I am amazed.
Lisa
Lisa, Wow do I resonate with your desire to have an instrument with unusual scales. I have made a Low D in the minor mode and I love it, its not Celtic but I love it anyway.
I’ve also made a whistle with an Oriental scale called “Insempe” and its a beautiful scale.
What is life without variety?
Ronaldo
You can replace all the frequencies with any scale you like,change the thickness to “Generation” type brass hobbie tubing found everywhere. Best bore diameter to length ratio’s are about 32 to 1(32X the bore diameter)and are usualy close to 1/2 the base frequency’s wavelength from fipple to bore end.
Have a “Tool Guy” drill the holes for you and you can add a voicing(fipple)to these tubes. Any scale is easily made.Make the tube lengths a little long because these are whistles and not flutes.You can cut the tubes shorter at the top in small segments until you get the right base frequency. Have Fun!
[ This Message was edited by: Thomas-Hastay on 2001-11-21 14:32 ]
Yes, Thomas,
Actually the flutomat was what tempted me to produce a whistle with these alternate tunings . . and your simple process analysis is very encouraging, thanks!
And Ronaldo,
What a coincidence for you to respond. I have visited the Reyburn site frequently–you probably hear this too much but I was planning on buying a low Reyburn as soon as I had the money together (by the looks of them I can tell they sound exquisite)–I was in doubt about which key, but now I might be in doubt of which tuning! No, really I would be happy to have the standard tuning in as low a whistle as my fingers will allow, which will take some consideration. Here’s to variety.
Lisa
It appears to me you are projecting much as being unique to eastern music when it is not so.
As a hindustani musician who plays (with ) both keyless Irish flute and simple system bansuri-s, Sweetheart flageolet etc
(as well as custom made flutes with uniquely “Eastern” scales - my own specification), I offer the following comments …
Hope it helps.
If not help me improve my communication.
This isn’t unique to bansuri. Any simple system flute will give you Lydian scale from the 3 finger reposing note. IE Irish D flute will give G Lydian from 3 finger up . G major (Ionian) would need to cross finger 4the for C natural.
Now in North Indian (Hindustani) system we call this Lydian scale the Kalyan. We have many beautiful raags in this scale just as does Irish music has many beautiful airs in the Lydian scale.
Thats one so-called exotic scale down. Only nine to go.
Actually the Major scale (I prefer western term Ionian) is Bilaval in our system. Thats another “exotic” one out of the way. So we are down to eight.
The Mixolydian scale is known as Khamaj. Despite the classical bansuri convention for doing this, you and I can get this with a 2 finger tonic. Thus on a G flute/whistle we can get automatic D Khamaj.
Three down.
Dorian scale we call Kafi (which is exactly how millions of Indians pronounce “coffee”, but I am getting off topic). Despite how a classical bansuri player brews his or her Kafi, as you know you can get Dorian with a progression from the 5 finger note. IE on a D flute you will get E Dorian scale. Personally I prefer a 2 finger Dorian which involves flattening the 3rd note with cross fingering. This allows considerable ornamentations below the tonic so essential in my music. That means to do D Kafi I would use a G key flute.
Now thats four down.
Phyrgian scale known as Bhairavi , from 4 finger tonic (or from 1 finger tonic providing the 3rd note is xfingered). I prefer the latter for ornamentation reasons. In D key flute tonic note F# or in my preferred way is B tonic. Of course for D tonic I would use a F# key flute.
Thats five down.
Aeolian (so-called “natural minor” of modern western system) scale we call Asawari. Thats the stairway starting with one finger note which will be B on D flute. On a D flute we can also do Asawari from E providing x finger C nat.
Thats 6 down.
So you can see 6 of the 10 exotic modes of Hindustani music have
western modal equals which are amenable to simple system flutes.
Now if you’re still interested I can deal with four remaining modes that have no equal in western system - Marwa, Todi. Bhairav (the male counterpart of Bhairavi mentioned earlier) and Purvi (or Pooravi).
But that doesn’t mean they some of them can’t be done on simple system flutes without
resorting to complex and difficult half hole techniques used by my Indian peers and superiors. Half hole techniques are particularly difficult with the precise finger holing in Irish wooden flutes.
In the western system this is called the harmonic minor scale.
You can easily get this starting at the 2 finger Mixolydian note and progressing with it with following exceptions:
cross finer the Mixolydian 3rd note to flatten
omit the mixolydian 7th note and replace with a cross fingered octave.
My bansuri-s are not as responsive to cross fingerings as the western simple system instruments. They prefer half hole approaches.
Still this harmonic minor is very easy wheteher X fed or half holed.
Gypsy? This is simply the “classic” minor mode, i.e. harmonic minor, with its typical augmented 7th.
You’d play it quite easily on any whistle (say Bb to respect the scale you gave) starting one hole open (xxx xxo). All you have to work on is half-holing the last hole up in second register (xxx xxø), to get the “sensible” 7th.
If I’m not wrong, some quenas are wholetone based.
Also, consider a 6-hole NA flute. Once the lowest hole is open, first step being a minor third, everything gets whole tone. Most halftones are easily available by cross-fingerings (or, of course, half-holing if the holes are large enough).
Also, it would be rather easy to have one made to get a wholetone interval as a first step. I easily made such a tube from PVC to fit my plastic Amon Olorin NA flute. Btw, this is an excellent starter kit if you want to experiment with weird scales: all it takes is standard 1" tubing…
A scale similarly produced by the whistle, even easier than the Major G scale. To get the lydian G scale on a D whistle, start xxx ooo and replace the C-nat by the C# (all open).
[EDIT NOTE:-
This is wrong example and I have corrected this 2 posts on from here
with the correct example.
I am leaving this error in place for integrity of thread discussions that have already occurred about this.]
BTW Zubivka,
your instructions are silent about the 6th.
A novice may read you to effect C D Eb F G A B C on a Bb flute
and this is not C harmonic minor.
In fact we need specific instruction (oxx ooo) for the Ab to complete
the scale.
[EDIT NOTE
This is still correct and Loquat eaters should note this ]
Tried. Sorry, doesn’t work here. In second register, every D whistle (low or high) I have will sound a wolf tone like a flat Bb when cross-fingered xxo xxx, i.e. higher than the regular A… Give it some blow and you may bring to a true Bb.
Actually I don’t know any cross-fingering getting that high G# clean and consistently. One can get away with xxo xox but my whistles ask varied breath control to bend it down in tune.
Great, our novice hence also learnt the ascending melodic minor for the same price! The descending, he knew already as tne “natural” minor (Eolian) minor. At the pace he’s learning, he’ll be a full-fledged monk in no time!
You’re quite right and I am sorry for giving wrong tablature.
Twas after midnight but thats no excuse because I’m a late niter.
This is what I meant (to avoid half holing).
For C harmonic minor you would do this with an Eb flute:-
If you can get a “truer” Bb for the Ni with half hole,
stick with it.
For me the half hole works best on Seery Blackwood and large bansuri
but the cross f works quite well for me with the
flageolets by my internet desk.
I can’t imagine anyone but a prodigy maintaining half holed
Bb at speed on a small holed flageolet.
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