Let me show you a prototype 7 hole (6 holes plus a thumb hole) simple PVC flute I just built, for playing in harmonic minor and double harmonic minor modes, which can be used to play Klezmer, Spanish Gypsy and various Arabic and Middle Eastern scales. Here is the “Gypsy flute” alongside the Gypsy low D whistle:
Here is a link to a sound sample, a short improvisation in D double harmonic minor (forgive my amateurish standard please!): http://www.box.net/shared/lj2kbr71mr
I used the same layout as developed for the whistles.
The interval pattern for the holes is 1-2-1-3-1-2-1,
One can play a double harmonic minor scale with the root note having five fingers and thumb on, and a Klezmer - Flamenco - Phrygian Dominant scale with the root having four fingers and thumb on.
I hope such a flute, or whistle, will be useful for those who love music in these Middle Eastern scales! Please ask questions and air comments!
Listened to the clip. Sounds great, on par with Doug’s PVC creations. The intonation is solid. I might be interested in getting one at some point. Excellent work!
Very nice Hans, sounds lovely.
I have taped over the F# to give F and the B to give Bb on a D whistle, which gives me an interesting scale in E. I have a tune I wrote in this scale here.
but the 3rd bar on line 2 contains a mistake the 3rd group should be a ‘triplet’ or more accurately a pair of semi quavers followed by a quaver. [or simply a repeat of bar 1 line 2.]
Yes, Will.
Your tune is written in the scale of D Phrygian Dominant:
D Eb F# G A Bb C D
with a few passing notes of F, passing to F#.
It starts down at C in part 2 and 4, but D is the root.
This fits well on my Gypsy flute, only the prototype I made plays one note higher, i.e. the scale of E Phrygian Dominant, with an additional D below. So I could play the tune transposed one tone up. I am trying to learn it, it looks interesting, but it will take me a while, I am not good in reading, and even worse playing this new flute.
The D whistle you taped over gives you a scale of
D E F G A Bb C# D
which is D Harmonic Minor, so you get A Phrygian Dominant (the mode on the dominant of the harmonic minor), and you could play your tune on A as root (D transposed to A), starting down at G in parts 2 and 4.
To play E Phrygian Dominant (Klezmer, Spanish Gypsy/Flamenco, Hijaz) on a normal D whistle, you play E F G# A B C D E, i.e half holed Fnat and G#, and cross fingered Cnat. And you get the extra D note below. But I find such half-holing rather awkward.
Correction, to play that tune I tape the E to give Eb the B to give Bb and the C# to give C nat then play the tune off middle D. sorry I just did it to check ..
The other way would be with the B flattened, and the F# flattened then play off the A.
The tune , if you ignore that triplet in part 2 , is very clearly 7/8 in its phrasing so should be reasonably straightforward , Its one I play mainly on guitar , originally it was a mandolin piece but works well for the whistle. IMO
I did put it on clips and snips but Im no whistler I just muck about for fun, have a few tunes nothing more. there are plenty of possible variations , I just put a few ideas in.
I had tried this , unsuccessfully, with low D whistles , they didn’t respond in the same way as a high D so I think your design here is a great progression for these kinds of music. Must be great fun to play about with the different ideas that ‘come out’ of the instrument.
a traditional name for the technical “phrygian dominant” is aramaic ahava rabba.
this is the scale for the Hindustani raga “Basant Mukhari”.
one interval distinguishes phrygian dominant from phrygian and that is the third., the latter being 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8 and the former having 3 instead of b3.
A lot of flamenco pieces shift between phrygian and phrygian dominant with the same tonic
which for me means Shudh Bhairavi and Basant Mukhari shifts.
I don’t know what the “double harmonic minor” means and I’ll have to look it up.
I betcha its probably got a really well known traditional name in both the Midlle Eastern and Indic traditions known by many millions more musicians than western trained musicians would understand about “double harmonic minor”.
I think I said here before that I had a Bhairav fife in D made for me some years ago and its great at the beach/outdoors and I have performed on stage and did studio recording with it for someone
Bhairav = Hijaz Kar (I think) > 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7 8
the range from left pinkie is (bold indicates actual scale):-
G# A Bb C# D Eb F# G G# A Bb C# D Eb F# G
which means the bell note is dip down dominant so critical in much Hindustani music both classical and folk/pop.
By selecting G# instead of G we get Pooravi scale.
However since obtaining a Boehm I prefer to play this sort of stuff on it due to lower range and universal fingering. I figured that by the time I obtained umpteen specialised flutes for non diatonic type scales used in world music I may as well just invest in one chromatic flute.
As for your phrygian/ahava rabba pipe it just takes one cross fingering or half holing to change a natural phrygian scale on any unkeyed flute to get ahava rabba.
I think I covered all this in my first 100 posts or so (if I remember correctly) some 7 years ago:-
the easiest way to get your scale in D (with D tonic) is on a Bb tube
which gives all the notes naturally except for the F# which requires responsive cross finger.
Its less awkward if you just use a plain old C whistle or flute for E Phrygian and amend it wih cross fingering as above for your G#.
Ahava Raba and Hijaz Kar are not the same.
Ahava Raba (Jewish, Klezmer) = Hijaz (Arabic) = Spanish Gypsy, Flamenco = Phrygian Dominant, with a semi tone interval pattern of 1312122.
Hijaz Kar (Arabic) = Double Harmonic Major with pattern 1312131
= Bhairav (Indian)
@talasiga:
Double Harmonic Major is related to Double Harmonic Minor (pattern 2131131, or 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7 8), it is the mode of the Dominant.
PS: I see that you prefer to note a scale pattern as derived from a major scale, indicating flattened or sharpened notes, whereas I prefer to use semi-tone interval pattern to describe a scale (I can remember these better). I hope this is no major hindrance in our communications about these scales!
Sure, if you like that instrument
Traditionally in the Middle Eastern region the woodwind instrument of choice was the kaval and the ney, I think. Both offer nearly chromatic scale possibilities, so are well suited to play these scales. I imagine the clarinet did replace the use of kaval and ney in many orchestras, because of its power and chromaticism.
One problem with taping up holes and half taping holes is that it most likely messes up the intonation of the note(s) above, by restricting the venting.
Quite possibly Hans, but as the whistle tone is quite pure and the walls are so thin and its melodic rather than harmonic/melodic IMO it would be minor anyhow. For me as long as home and 5th are true the other notes are fudge-able .
I have no doubt your whistles would be better for the job and if finances permitted and if I was a whistler Id def get one from you, but my Pipering is an expensive game ! and Im still waitng for 3 chanters due me. so unless I start selling a few instruments!..
Id not tried playing the tune in A with E and F# flat so thanks for that Hans.
Given the Carnatic name is Simhendra Madhyamam
for a raaga I have never consciously heard played I’ll just stick with “double harmonic minor”
and go along with Hans on this (hoping that he might make me a custom order whistle soon )
I prefer to think of it as the 4th mode (and the only “non devilish” mode) of Hijaz Kar or Bhairav because this (Bhairav or HK) is the better known entity worldwide.
This means that if I were wanting a C Harmonic Minor or Double Harmonic Minor whistle all in one I would discuss with Hans for a bell note G Bhairav whistle. This would give me a middle tonic for my required scales and a cross fingering or a thumbhole option to switch from one to the other.
IMO the simplest way to explain double harmonic minor is to say it is a harmonic minor with a raised 4th.
(Incidentally, the cross fingered or thumbholed note would enable switch from bellnote Bhairav to Ahava Rabba)
well no you have not seen discerningly. I have been using semi-tone interval pattern extensively since I joined these forums in 2004 and here is one of my early contributions that show this https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/c-flutes/17416/22
I found some people find it easier to comprehend different scales against a major scale template (and noting this usage was also extant in the music world) starting using it also and often both in the very same post as a cross check.
In fact hans I BET that, in C&F forums, I used the cluster “semitone interval pattern/s” before you ever did and if you can publicly prove otherwise I will send you a surprise gift providing you PM your address …
Fine, thanks
Here is another flute sample, a short piece in D “Hungarian Gypsy” scale
(Double harmonic minor) D E F G# A Bb C# D, dipping down to C# http://www.box.net/shared/j63jhxv0ff
And here are various scale samples, played on the same flute.
The notes of the flute are C# D E F G# A B C, with a good cross fingered Bb
(like C nat on D whistle). Opening the thumb hole gives C.
Sample 1: http://www.box.net/shared/luyjkr56ez
2 scales each of:
D Spanish Phrygian (Romanian, Dorian #4), D E F G# A B C D
E Spanish Gypsy (Hijaz, Ahava Raba), E F G# A B C D E
D Hungarian Minor (Double Harmonic Minor), D E F G# A Bb C# D, uses cross-fingered Bb
E Hijaz Kar (Bairav, Double Harmonic Major), E F G# A B C D# E, uses half-holed D#
Sample 2: http://www.box.net/shared/j2bbjvxriz
2 scales each of:
A Harmonic Minor, A B C D E F G# A
A Hijaz Kar (Bairav, Double Harmonic Major), A Bb C# D E F G# A, uses cross-fingered Bb
A Hungarian Minor (Double Harmonic Minor), A B C D# E F G# A, uses half-holed D#
A Melodic Minor (Aeolian), A B C D E F G A, uses half-holed G
