Does anybody here play old-timey music? Do you think it would be strange if someone played the Irish flute in an old-timey jam? I ask because I don’t want to ask at my jam session and have to embarrass anybody by making them have to figure out how to say no nicely. But if it’s ok elsewhere, maybe I’ll summon up the courage to ask. I’ve been struggling along on the fiddle horribly and on the mandolin horribly but at least not obnoxiously and sometimes I just wish I could play an instrument that I can actually play, you know?
I play old-timey banjo (i.e. clawhammer style, but you know that) and I personally would not bring my flute to an OT jam, just because it wouldn’t contribute to that old-timey string band sound that I love so well (maybe because it’s not a stringed instrument?). That said, there are plenty of OT tunes that sound just fine on flute or even whistle, and of course there are a number of tunes that are heard in both OT and Irish trad circles. Around here, I have observed that these are the tunes most often requested or suggested by beginning session players (e.g. Red Haired Boy).
Are there any open contradance music sessions in your area? The contra repertoire includes a lot of tunes from both traditions and would likely be a more flute-friendly setting.
Ming
There was a thread with some background info on this topic a while ago:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/blue-grass-and-american-folk-music-on-irish-flute/56587/1
Also a related thread now running in the Whistle Forum:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/american-fiddle-tunes/68813/1
As I read topics MTGuru mentioned, I found a link to the band Buffalo in the Castle : http://www.buffalocastle.com/
The rendition in the website is brilliant, so I guess Old-Time can work in the flute
Well at least it works if your name is Desi Wilkinson…
Another interesting tidbit: the term “old-timey” is shunned on the East coast, whereas it’s common in the West. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s one of those sensitive issues I find amusing.
Old-time and bluegrass players around here aren’t very welcoming to fluters and whistlers, just as Irish sessioners don’t roll out the welcome mat for five-string banjo players. That’s how sessions stay traditional.
from what I can tell, old-time music is a matter of people pretty much picking up and playing the acoustic instruments they have. As whistles and woodenflute sound fine with these tunes, I really don’t see a problem. Certainly I’ve never run into one. Bluegrass is a bit more orthodox and has a sort of classical string sound that flows from Bill Monroe.
But truth be told I’ve never run into any trouble there either.
Yes and no, Jim. As you know, there is a deeply rooted tradition of acoustic music in the Southeast (of USA) that is more cohesive than just people picking up instruments and playing what they had. It has its own distinctive cadences and identity, much of which is based on the unique instrumentation used. People in my area call that “old-time”. But there are also old forms of acoustic music just about everywhere else.
Various groups use the term ‘old-time’ in a narrow way to refer to their own chosen sub-genre, (e.g. Southern Appalachian, or even more specifically, ‘Round Peak’, ‘Sand Hills’ or ‘Piedmont’). So, while some “old-time” sessions may welcome diverse instrumentation, others may feel it tramples on tradition. It all depends who you’re running with.
I remember we had a bit of a tussle at a folk festival last summer with the ‘old time’ guys on one side of the table and the ITM guys on the other and there wasn’t a lot of cross-over possible. Ended up with them playing a tune or two and us playing a tune or two in alternation. Very clear perceptions about what was appropriate to the string-based tunes. You need to respect people’s traditions, although there’s loads of acoustic folk jams that combine all sorts. Just a question of sussing what etiquette seems appropriate to the context. Just ask people I guess…?
I corresponded for a while a few years back with Kerry Blech (pronounced “Blessh”), a well-known Old Time fiddler; asked him a lot of questions about the fife in OT. He had a few rare field recordings, some of that is at the Digital Library of Appalachia; also sent me a copy of an album of Bruce Greene and Bob Butler, fiddle and fife, very nice stuff. If I ever get a blog going I may post that.
Any instrument can work in any tradition, played well; I think some have potential that isn’t really recognized, too; for instance, someone playing Irish tunes on a tenor sax with the tone of a Pharoah Sanders or John Coltrane would be more like Willie Clancy than any banjo or accordion. Yet you don’t hear much of any sax playing in ITM. Perhaps it will take some pioneer to get the ball rolling, ala Eddie Clarke and Breandan Power with the harmonica. I also think of the guy with the videos on YouTube playing Irish music on the kheng, great stuff.
Kelly’s heard it all - spoke of someone playing quite brilliant Old Time on a clarinet once. The few piano solos of ITM I’ve heard were wonderful too.
…you don’t hear much of any sax playing in ITM. Perhaps it will take some pioneer to get the ball rolling
…despite having played sax for 25 years I still don’t think it’ll be me rolling it out down the pub of a Wednesday night 
I think CT and MarkP have it about right. The late, lamented SoCal Summer Solstice Festival was always split between OT and ITM. I had friends on both sides, but would never presume to impose my personal ideas of appropriate cross-over or “what sounds fine” on people who were there to enjoy their own chosen traditions, according to their own expectations. Musicians may be too polite to tell you you’re ruining the experience for them. I brought a mando to participate in the OT jams.
I think cross-over acceptance is totally situational. I’ve played concertina and whistle with OT groups for contradancing, and that’s worked fine. Contras are looser, and there was complete buy-in from the other musicians. I’ve also recorded whistle with OT fiddle and dulcimer. My recording, my rules. 
Kevin’s comments are interesting for suggesting the ways in which instruments are constantly knocking on the door of tradition, as they always have done.
Hmm. Sounds like I better just keep torturing the cat with my devil’s box then.
Not a groundbreaker, eh? “oleorezonator” is another C&F member who wails the sax. Then there was Josie McDermott. It’s been done, just not much. Whereas you had that whole army of tub thumping bohdranists in the wake of Peadar Mercier. That was a pretty obscure instrument in trad beforehand; guitars were sort of evil necessities, a step down or up from the piano. The pattern that emerges is cheapness/portability I guess. But pipes and keyed flutes sure aren’t cheap.
Thought I’d check for saxes on the YouTube but all I get is lame quartet versions of “Danny Boy” etc. Also the Irish Washerwoman. Side note; lately I’ve been listening a lot to jazz singer Chris Connor, who recorded for the Atlantic label in the 50s/early 60s and fronted the Stan Kenton big band for a while. On one of her LP tracks the tenor man plays a bar or two, then throws in half of the first part of the Washerwoman. This took me by surprise, to say the least.
Here’s some cat blowing the Temple Hill on his horn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zGsuXXbpIA
The way I look at it is, if I took my sax to the ITM session it would just give free licence to the guy who lives round the corner to bring his Jembe in again 
We had a very pleasant little tune this week in the snow with no guitars turning up for a change (must do that again).
Having said that we’ve had fun with other traditional instruments, like the two Swedish nyckelharpor that came along (magical) and any number of bastardised stringed things that people have made (banjolelis, mandolas, guizookis, etc.) but they wouldn’t really stick out of place. Someone turned up (once) with a very fine classical oboe, a tune book and phenomenal sight reading skills, which was intriguing (and not a million miles away from a chanter!).
Packie Manus Byrne grew playing whistle, and took up the sax and a gig playing in dance bands for a time when he first went to live in England, but I’ve never seen a hint that he was ever a cross-dresser, instrumentally speaking. SteveJ might know better than I.
I have been learning old-time tunes on my flute. My ambition is to be able to play more often in social situations as there are so many more old-time musicians than Irish musicians in my area. It is not my ambition to go to the regular OT jams in our area, as that might surprise many and even displease some people. But when I am with people who know (and may even like) me, it considerably expands my musical opportunities to now some OT.
I happen to be fond of the old Kentucky and Illinois tunes. They seem to be more melodic than the Surrey County style that gets a lot of air time down here. Many of the tunes Bruce Greene collected are good flute tunes. I wonder if anyone agrees with and/or has opinions as to why the Kentucky and Illinois tunes might be more flutey?
Perry
Interestingly, there’s a similar thread running over on the whistle board.
As was already suggested, a session of musicians working with the contradance tradition in mind might be a good option, since there the eclectic use of various instruments makes sense with the eclectic choice of tunes (see The Portland Collection collections for a sample of this). Old-time tunes are good fun on flute (I’m particularly fond of “Cold Frosty Morning”); it’s just a matter of figuring out a situation where the sound would be a welcome addition rather than a distraction from what the other players are after.
Here’s a band that does some quite nifty stuff along these lines:
Their flute player seems to have figured out how to make it sound like an old-time instrument.
Some good Henry Reed tunes:
Over the Waterfall
Cold Frosty Morning
The Kitchen Girl
Henry Reed was a Virginia fiddler.
Crowfoot sounds really interesting, thanks for the link.
Perry
I think once a session or group develops a sound or follows a tradition a person has to blend in. That doesn’t stop a person from starting a new group or an offshoot where more adventurous music is attempted.
It would really depend on how SHIT-HOT you are. If you can TOTALLY hang, you might be temporarily welcomed.