I take it flutes were widely played in the USA
in the 18th century. How come they’re absent
in various forms of American folk music?
Fiddles, mandolinse, etc are there.
Well, I don’t have the definitive answer but, recalling some history, the fife was more popular here. It was often used for barn dances and the like. But, as most know, it is not a parlor instrument. As it faded from use when the military stopped using them on a regular basis, the rest of American folk went to mandolin, guitar, etc., as they were the prevalant instrument of the time here. Trad Irish music took a while to catch on here in the States.
Yeah, how come? It’s totally not fair. I could join in the bluegrass jams with my flute. Do you think they’d let me anyway? How would I play backup with a flute? Just hit whatever note the chord book says?
I play lots of bluegrass and Old Time American stuff
with other musicians. Flute works well in a lot of
these venues. I sure wouldn’t hesitate giving it
a try. Generally I’m quite welcome.
Also Irish flute works well in blues, in rock, in
Gospel, in country, in lots of neat stuff.
You know there were American flute makers,
they were selling to somebody, and I beleive
UK flutes were imported. Flutes were a rage
in the UK in the 19th century, so I would
have thought they would have been reasonably
widespread here. Maybe that’s wrong.
Stephen Foster was a flute player, as well as of flageolet, piano, and guitar. Here are pics of his flageolet and flute (not in relative size to each other, and it looks like the flute has been just randomly put together in its self-alignment):
From the website Stephen Collins Foster, A Pictorial Biography, from which the above pics were taken:
‘The flute was Stephen’s constant companion in his studies and walks, and his playing became so well known that he was often invited to entertainments with the direct request to “bring his flute.” At one of these bidding, he became quite furious and replied that he would be glad to “send the flute.”’
And we know Henry David Thoreau played flute.
So it seems flutes were there.
..
I’ve never seen a flute at a bluegrass jam. I’ve only been to two, however.
Maybe I will do just that at the next jam. I’ll bring my flute. But when it’s going around the circle, you don’t play the melody the whole time, right?
just try to add some sparkley bits to the top of the waves…
No, I find I’m the only flutist they’ve ever seen at these
jams. Whistles are perhaps more welcome than flutes.
But I am playing flute too in bluegrass jams.
The sort of acoustic jams I go to, somebody starts a tune,
then we go around in a circle and people improvise on it.
I don’t know if that includes bluegrass but I think it often
does.
Of course with a lot of Old Timey tunes we’re just moving
along too fast with an intricate tune to improvise.
Arkansas Traveller, sort of thing.
But I really love improvising and also playing harmony
beneath people.
Blues, ballads, country stuff, a whole lot of rock n’roll
is a lot easier than ITM, and the chops one develops
at ITM help one enormously in this music. So rather
than trying desperately to play jigs and reels up
to speed, one descends on simpler, slower tunes
and explores them. yes, i suppose one plays notes
in the chords to play harmony.
One thing I’ve learned is that my flute will drown out
guitars, so it’s imperative that I hold back when others
are soloing or play in the ‘breaks’ in a tune. If I can’t
hear the soloist I stop.
Yesterday I went to a ‘picnic’ hosted by a hammered dulcimer
club in burb about 40 minutes west of st. louis.
Dulcimers, guitars, mandolins, banjos, fiddles
and yours truly on flute and whistle. Lots of fun.
Also, I’m not competing with other musicians, I play
an instrument they don’t play.
I spent several years playing with the Bates Street Folk
and Blues Band, whistle mostly, mostly on the street
but also private gigs. We did a lot of bluegrass, I learned
to play whistle that way. Really works.
Aslo, you know, American fiddle tunes are wonderful
and go wonderfully on flute.
That sounds a lot like the jams I’ve been to. Same music. Arkansas Traveler sort of stuff. Everyone goes around the circle taking turns playing and improvising on the melody. While that’s happening, everybody else is just playing short notes on the back-beat.
I think this is more difficult than Irish music because when it’s your turn, you’re out there for the world to see and you have to be creative with the tune, or at least it’s good if you can do that. Nobody would get mad if you played the tune straight I’m sure. But they’re going to hear every bit of whatever you do. Kinda scary to me.
Me too. I have the option of passing.
But gee Irish flute is amazing on so much of this stuff.
In one acoustic jam we do everything from ITM to Dylan
and The Stones to gospel to Country to Folk to
Mining songs to blues… There are three strong female
vocalists and some good people on guitar, mando, mouth
harp, acoustic bass… The Pratten flute has a strong bottom,
I can play bass lines, I play at the top of the
second octave when soloing. And the melodies
just ache for improvisations and harmonies.
I’m learning a lot of that from the singers.
I was really scared initially but, you know,
over the years it becomes less scary.
It’s not so bad to have ones heart beat
with anticipation…
Remember what we consider “folk flutes” or “irish flutes” today were the classical flutes of that time.
I’ve often wondered this self-same thing!
Of course, there is the bamboo fife tradition embodied by the late Otha Turner, as well as military fife and drum music. Flutes turn up in New England contra-dance music, and the Native American flute has its own broad tradition, so I suppose flutes aren’t totally absent.
On the other hand, one hardly hears flute in the various string-band traditions (maybe 'cause it has no strings…) and it was a latecomer to jazz, and isn’t really used in traditional jazz. I do wonder why it never became a part of the Appalachian (Old-Time) tradition…availability? It certainly can sound good in that context; one of the players at a local Old-Time session occasionally plays whistle, Matt Eakle has played convincing bluegrass solos with the David Grisman Quintet, and Nicholas Williams has made some interesting incursions into Old-Time music. The ensemble Hesperus has made a nice-sounding recording of early American music featuring flageolet, too.
Taj Mahall…piccolo
okay…he wasn’t very good at it…
but he knows more of the history than any of us do
They’re absent from “various” forms of American folk music, but not all. I’ve had the pleasure and privilege to live in two American theme parks – Virginia and Connecticut. Virginia is, of course, “America’s Biggest Confederate Them Park,” while Connecticut is pretty much the fife and drum capital of the world, although the neighboring states hold their own, too. I’d put the fifes in pretty much the same category as flutes and whistles.
Also there are some American trad artists who use flute and whistle. I think it’s just that most people think of American folk music as old time and bluegrass and trad jazz without thinking of the other traditions.
Right. But fiddle, mandolin, guitar crossed into folk music,
and concert flutes certainly crossed into folk music in
Ireland.
Why not here?
Of course I take the good point that flute/fife isn’t
entirely absent–but it’s largely absent in a way
that it isn’t in the folk music of many other countries.
Thanks, Tintin, for the Nicholas Williams clip.
That’s pretty exciting stuff.
Bluegrass wasn’t “invented” until 1935 or so as a blend of scottish/english folk and gospel songs with the blues. By that point in time, the guitar had been firmly established as the family instrument of choice replacing the mandolin, which had fallen out of favor. Much like simple flutes, though, mandolins were very affordable and were picked up by bluegrass musicians, the majority of whom were farmers and rural folk without a large income.
The favored instruments at the beginning of bluegrass were the guitar, fiddle and banjo with bass and mando taking a close second. The music became firmly established in local radio stations throughout the south and in some parts of the North, where southerners and applachians had moved for factory work.
Early American folk music traveled across the ocean from England and Scotland. Appalachia settlement in 1700 through 1850 predated the introduction of irish flute/whistle so the primary instrument was the fiddle. Compare “Paddy in the Smoke” (1967 Irish fiddle music recorded in London) with Bob Wills…it sounds exactly alike in tone and phrasing.
Irish immigration to America really occurred with the potato famines of 1845 - 1851…again before the flute really established itself within the music.
The fife was a principal instrument in America from 1770 through 1850 when it fell out of favor, being replaced by concert flutes, pianos (which were being manufactured in the US around 1840), etc, reflecting America’s move toward more stately pastimes and economic success. Although used in the Civil War (and Revolution) as a signaling device (in the Civil War, being played by kids). As a tool for army signaling, one has to believe the fifers made excellent targets as well.
It may temper my enthusiasm for playing an instrument if, besides being difficult to play in tune, playing one makes me a natural target for any available sharpshoooter.
Old-timey music is dead easy to play on flute, and I sometimes do. As with traditional French music, you can pick it up on the fly, which is virtually impossible with Irish. Trouble is, I find Old-timey kind of boring to play.
Bluegrass is another matter. I am good at improvisation, but the nature of Bluegrass doesn’t lend itself to flute because the style is so staccato. I suppose if I made a study of it, I could invent a way to play Bluegrass flute and start a recording career, but my heart ain’t in it.