Hi ya’ll,
I love the slow reel “The Sunset” by Altan as played in this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI3GC87q6QE
Looking up the dots on the thesession.org I saw there’s some Fnat’s in the last part. I’m having a hard time playing them and looking up “the Sunset” in the chiffandfipple archive I came across somebody who made the remark that they simplify this passage in the video.
Here’s the question : how ?
Thanks for any advice on how to avoid the cross-fingering (if at all possible).
Unless you have a very unusual whistle, there is no usable cross-fingering for F nat - the Baroque flute fingering of xxx xox simply doesn’t flatten the F# enough. The only option is to half-hole R2. However, you can simplify the fcf phrase by not going to your usual C nat fingering - keep the xxx xDo shape and simply lift L1 (oxx xDo) - it should give a very good C nat.
Thus:
f xxx xDo
c oxx xDo
f xxx xDo
You can also use the same thing in the next bit with F nats - gagf|ecef - use the half-holed f at the end of the bar, slide/roll the finger to shut the hole for e, roll it back again and lift L1 for c, roll it over again for e (and close L1) and back again for the f - makes quite a nice pattern with a little practice - kinda rocking that E finger (R2) back and forth on alternate notes, the only other finger-shift being L1 for the c. Or, if your whistle is OK with oxx ooo for c nat, just use that; if that’s conspicuously sharp, try oxx xoo (just lift R2 as well as L1)
Thus:
g xxx ooo
f xxx xDo
bar
e xxx xxo
c oxx xDo or oxx ooo or oxx xoo (oxx xxo probably too flat/nasty to be usable)
e xxx xxo
f xxx xDo
BTW, you probably will be covering significantly more than half the E finger’s hole (the F# hole, hole 5) for the f nat (probably just “bleeding” a sliver of the hole open), so the slide/roll to e should be a very small movement.
No need to fudge any notes. It’s a slow reel, so no major hassle…
Here’s an ABC for The Sunset (I’ve coloured the offending two bar passage):
T: The Sunset
T:(or The Space Shuttle)
C:Cathal McConnell & Seamus Quinn
O:Ireland
Z:Gian Marco Petresanta (The Session.org)
N:see The Session.org for chord suggestions in Comments.
M:C|
L:1/8
K:D
ed|cF~F2 c2dc|BGBd (de)ed|=cdeg d2Ad|dfed (3Bcd ed|cF~F2 c2dc|BG (3Bcd (de)ed|
=cdeg fde^c|dfec d2:|]ag|fdfg (ga)gf|e=cef g3a|fggf gfec|dfed (3Bcd ed|
cF~F2 c2dc|BG (3Bcd (de)ed|=cdeg fde^c|dfec d2||ag|=f=cfg (ga)gf|e=ce=f g3a|
fggf gfec|dfed (3Bcd ed|cF~F2 c2dc|BG (3Bcd (de)ed|=cdeg fde^c|dfec d2|]
The need to play F-nat arises often enough that it is something to master, not to avoid. As Jem said, no need to fudge. Just do it.
Adding that in the second register the F-nat cross-fingering xxx oxx works very well on many whistles (and not at all on others).
Thanks guys. Love the oxx xDo for Cnat ! I wasn’t looking to skip the Fnat (got to bite the sour apple) but this is a nice work-around to some of the problems.
Off to practice I go !
And you’re right, Belgian_Waffle, Ciaran is playing what might be described as a ‘simpler’ version in the second half of the B part than the dots as on the session.org. He’s holding on to the Fnat at the start of one bar, rather than dipping down to the Cnat, and he’s holding on to the E at the start of the next bar.
Oh, and thanks for that Cnat tip, Jem. I like the tune with the fnat cnat fnat pattern in it, so it’ll come in handy. Mind you, I wouldn’t argue with Ciaran’s playing - it’s beautiful, isn’t it?
I only just discovered that fcf thing while considering this thread… I did semi-learn the tune last summer, but on flute (with an F key or two 
) and hadn’t really looked at it on whistle before - but it’s logical.
But it’s also an issue.
On most whistles, the full fingering xxx xco → oxx ooo, or xxx xco → coo ooo, gives a nice snap or chirp to the register transition, where the lazy fingering gives a very fluffy or soft transition. So it’s not just a choice of fingering; it’s also a choice of sound.
In a slow tune like this you might want the smoother sound, depending on your phrasing. So the lazy fingering may be OK. OTOH, as Jem said, it’s a slow reel, so there’s no need to fudge. The full fingering will give a more whistle-like transition. Coordinating a 3-finger move shouldn’t be a problem. And on some whistles, the lazy transition will tend to pop the C-nat up to the wrong octave.
Choice is good. And I often advocate lazy fingering. But this may be a case where something that works fine on the flute may have unintended consequences on whistle. Unless the consequences are intended.
No laziness on the flute - because you have the F keys (well, I have); I play it using the C key, no probs going from either the (keyed) F nat or the E to the keyed C fingering, but using oxo xxo (no Eb vent) also gives a good C (on most Rudall type flutes, at least) and a very easy change from either (keyed) F nat or E too - but I wouldn’t call it a fudge/lazy/cheat fingering, just an alternative.
It hadn’t even occurred to me to half-hole the C on whistle ('cos I never do save in rare instances of wanting a bend on a B) - C nat on whistle has good cross-fingerings (not including oxx ooo on any of my regular-use whistles! 
- pass the hobby-horse 
), so I use them (ditto all other cross-fingerable notes - F and Eb would be the only ones I’d consider half-holing - 'cos there’s no choice). Trying it, even allowing I’m unaccustomed to it and practice would likely improve things, I think the pinched F to the pinched C nat (xxx xDo to Doo ooo) is really awkward! I wouldn’t consider it worth practising when there are good alternatives.
On the home-made PVC low D I keep by the computer that I was trying-out on, the sequence I gave does the register shift reliably and both the fcf and ece drop/jumps are fairly chiffy/poppy (no less so than going to C nat fingered oxx ooo or oxx xoo, though with noticeably different qualities, so choice…), not fluffy - though I accept that will differ on other whistles.
BTW, MTGuru, I just had a very quick try on a bunch of whistles with that xxx oxx for 2nd 8ve Fnat - on most it produced either an F# (variably sharp, on or flat of the xxx xoo F#) or a sharp A above, or flipped to a higher harmonic, even with reduced breath pressure, or just made a horrid noise - including a Shaw mezzo G, my Lim PVC Low D, my Swayne high D, a C and Bb Gen… it just about worked usably (well in tune) on a Susato D with a significant breath pressure drop (got the A above otherwise) but on a Carey Parks Everywhistle with either its C or D bodies it worked admirably with no significant breath adjustment. (Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to work on my Aulos baroque traverso despite the small holes - gets a nasty, weak, off F#.)
So he turns “the offending bars” (lol)
|ag|=f=cfg (ga)gf|e=ce=f g3a|
into
|ag|=f=3g (ga)gf|e3=f g3a| ?
and (as far as I can hear) chucks in a roll on the e3…
Thanks guys, for the clarification !
BTW Jem, the crossfingering works on my Burke. Thanks a million !
Almost, not quite.
ag|=f3g (ga)gf|~e3=f g2zg|f etc.
Yeah, I should go through my whistles and make a list. Offhand, my Burke session bore C and D and Susato S-bore D are spot-on. Also Copeland D and Sweetone D.
Thanks ya’ll ! Off a tootling I go !
Oh, and I ought to thank you, Belgian_Waffle. I’d never played this on whistle before. It’s a fantastic whistle tune. I’m loving it. The cat - not so much.
benhall.1 : credit goes to the ones who wrote it. Tears in my eyes first time I heard it…
And thanks for the lesson in halfholing and crossfingering, guys !!
OK, couldn’t resist. I hope this is useful to someone.
Low whistle demo clip The Sunset
HALF HOLE
It’s really not hard to learn, and you can use the same simple skill to play good Cnat,G#,Bb,Eb, etc. Why wouldn’t you want to be able to play all of those notes?
What we’ve been saying, Paul, re: the F nats, anyway. ('Cos there’s no alternative - did you read the thread?)
But why (I know, oooolllddd hobby horse!) would you/I/the OP/anyone in their right mind want to use half-holing when there are good, simple (and easier, more reliable) cross-fingerings available?
Half-hole when you’ve no alternative or if you want a special effect, sure, but for routine accidentals, if you can (i.e. your instrument allows),
CROSS FINGER!
As to avoid any future Anglo-American conflicts, the Belgian has found a compromise : I’ll learn 'm both (in due time) !!
Thanks for video, Jem, it’s most instructional…
Here’s another take on the tune from a guy in Spain with a bag on his head:
As in “quite another take”! Too fast, no F naturals in B2 , not even an attempt at them or a fudge avoidance that preserves/allows for the tonal shift… just repeats B1…