I have been recording myself again. I have better equipment now, and all it has done is highlight bits I dont like.
At the top of the second octave there is a buzzy edge to the sound, and the second Cnat is distinctly iffy. Is there something obvious that I am doing wrong? More importantly, is there something I can do to fix it?
I have put a good example of this up on box.net for those that would be kind enough to help me.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Actually I liked it. Are you cross fingering your C? If so 1/2 hole instead if possible to give you more adjustment. I really think it’s not the C but the relationship between B and C that’s causing you to think the C is off. The B is most likely flat and the C a bit sharp.
The top of the second octave of any whistle is a struggle because you can’t change the fipple and must deal only with air velocity. That being said, Larsen says that it’s possible to constrict the column of air entering the fipple with the muscles of the lips. The idea is the velocity is increased but the actual volume of air is decreased. The end result should be a cleaner high note.
Actually, Phill, your high B is spot on pitch. But your high C-nat is sharp, around 50 cents sharp. Since the C-nat always occurs adjacent to B here, just roll it up with the first finger, as Mark says. Should sound better.
Thankyou both, Mark and MTGuru, for taking the time to listen and comment. I am glad you liiked it Mark, though it is far, far, from learnt yet.
Mark, I am cross-fingering - (as I understand the term - there are open holes above the first closed hole). I am using OXOXXO as recommended by the maker. I normally do half-hole the high Cnat, but in this tune they are slightly longer than the transients I am used to, and my half-holed notes can waver a little giving an unpleasant effect. I was hoping for a stable note, so went to the cross fingering.
I suppose that being able to detect and dislike the incorrect pitch (even if I couldn’t say why) is an improvement in my pitch appreciation. Though 50 cents is quite a lot is it not?
Did either of you detect the ‘buzziness’ that I complained about? Or am I just being too finnicky? Good quality recording equipment and my desire for perfection may not be a good combination.
Was it the high notes where you heard the “buzziness”? I could detect some clipping at the upper range of your playing. Whistles are notorious for their wide dynamic range from the bottom to the top of their pitch range. What that means in simplest terms is that the higher notes are louder than the lower notes. And if you are blowing high notes into tune, that just exacerbates the issue. What to do?
Several solutions are available to you.
Just kidding. You can get a good recording with most decent gear these days.What’s your recording set-up?
If the buzziness was not in the high notes, then forget everything I said.
Feadoggie
Hi Feadoggie, Yes, the buzziness I hear is in the high notes. I did turn the gain down and stand well away from the mic - in fact I had to ‘normalise’ the recording afterwards in Audacity in order to get the volume reasonable. (Is that why you said the recording is ‘at the edge of clipping’?) It should not be clipping during recording - I think I managed less than 50% of the possible volume (judged linearly, by height of peaks, rather than measured logarithmically). Or is some clipping likely when ‘normalising’ in Audacity?
I am using a Zoom H2, so stand-alone purpose-built field recorder. It has got compression, but I should not need to use it, surely? As for more equipment, no, no no. I blew my budget and more on the H2.
Thanks for the input. At least I am not hearing things that are not there…
I have an H2 myself. I get very good results with mine. You should not have to use the compression in the H2 if you have good levels and avoid “confronting” the mics directly. I usually have the H2 three feet or so away from the whistle and a foot or more below the mouthpiece. The H2 is usually wearing its foam hat and the gain is on medium or low depending on the whistle. The mics on the H2 are fairly sensitive. Compression works well in the H2 but I rarely have had to use it. I do not like the AGC or “automatic gain control” function though. Your experience may vary from mine though. I’ve got a studio full of recording gear but the H2 is what I use to personally record concerts, workshops and sessions. It’s a good deal, IMO.
I apologize for my ignorance of Audacity. It is loaded on my computers but I never use it. I have way too many other recording/editing packages. I generally stick with Sonar PE. Anyway. Since you recorded on the H2, Audacity should have nothing to do with your “buzziness”. Although I do not know what the “normalize” action did. Normalizing generally raises the overall volume level of a file but limits the top of the dynamic range. It may or may not be coming from that. The H2 has a normalizing function too. Check the original sound file from the H2. Was it 'buzzy"? If you can, take a look at the wave form of the original recording. Then look at the normalized (?) recording. See what the peaks look like. Can you send me the file from the H2? I will PM you an email address.
Feadoggie
I’ve just had a listen. I know nothing about recording, but I didn’t detect any unpleasant ‘buzziness’ at the top end.
The cnat is another matter though. I think that’s a classic point at which you should half-hole, by preference, whatever the pitch produced by cross-fingering. It’s the sort of note that is often played by sliding up into it - and often not quite getting there. In other words, it sounds better flat than sharp. This is especially true if you’ve got that nice slide up from the high b. Half-hole it, Phill. Sort of bend your finger away from the hole. But not much. In fact, not enough to produce a proper cnat. Then, while you’re doing that, give it extra pressure, from the diaphragm. You can produce a real, other-worldly tone using that sort of technique.
What I am hearing is rather slight and only at three or four brief places in the recording.
Feadoggie
Oh, I dare say you’re right, feadoggie. I was just trying to balance it. If nobody had mentioned it, I wouldn’t have noticed it at all. And, in fact, I still don’t, really, but that could be my speakers … I’ll have another listen … But I notice the cnat all right. 
Hmmm, It sounds as if I am over-reacting then?
I certainly take on board the comments about half-holing rather than cross-fingering. But what if I need a good solid second Cnat? 50cents sharp sounds a lot to me, especially if I noticed 
. Is this the sort of thing that can be corrected by technique? If I drop the breath pressure any I lose the note. My embouchure(sp?) is closed right down, and in fact has to be very tight for most of the whistle’s range. Any tighter and it would hold water, I reckon. I am only using about a third, maybe a quarter of the wind-way.
I really do appreciate the help and feedback folks.
Thanks
Get a proper whistle Phill that old wooden thing you play with does you no favours
I mostly use a cross-fingered Cnat in the lower octave - OXX OOO or OXOXXX depending on the whistle - but I generally use a half-hole for the upper octave. It’s safe enough to crossfinger on something thin like a Generation, but the broader, more solidly built whistles (more expensive too) seem to be unstable in the second octave if you cross-finger. There’s a chance of a horrible shriek. I don’t shriek any more, but just the chance of one is enough to persuade me to half-hole instead.
You might experiment with other options for the cross-fingering Cnat. Perhaps OXXXOX would bring it down a bit or, as BenHall.1 suggests, OXOXXX. For me the cross-fingered Cnat varies widely between whistles.
Best wishes.
Steve
My impression is that you are playing well enough but the whistle is out of tune.
Thanks, I will try other cross-fingerings. One was mentioned to me a while ago by Colin Goldie, and I only remembered it last night. He suggested covering t2 (or t2 and t3? cant remember) and ‘shading’ t1. A cross between cross-fingering and half-holing. IIRC he suggested that this would work on just about any whistle. I am not sure if he was intending it fot the second Cnat, though.
Any experiences out there?
My reticence is the amount of time it seems to retrain my fingers (or my brain), and the period of confusion it causes.
Hi Phil,
It sounds like the second register C-nat . but will work on the first.
As with any hole-shading… practice and listen.
Remember - when you were a baby and kid, it took more practice to master common vocal inflection to be understood - whistle is the same .. probably easier than vocal-chords .. only harder because we are older.
(The master is the one who sees how infinite the task really is - be of good heart 
)
Oh good! I’m glad this thread isn’t dead.
I understand your reticence, Phill. But I honestly think there’s no way round the fact that you need to have at your disposal more than one way of playing cnats. That’s at a basic level. You will eventually want some other half-holed and cross-fingered notes as well. But learning to be able to switch at will between a cross-fingered cnat (in either octave) and a half-holed cnat is something that will be invaluable to you, and is so worthwhile to learn.
Keep at it, Phill. You’re getting these airs really well these days. A pleasure to listen to.
Ok, thanks Ben and Mitch, and all who have helped. Special thanks to Feadoggie for examining the original recording, confirming some distortion, and giving some good advice to avoid such in the future.
One thing I am doing wrong is avoiding some less obvious fingerings - the half-holings. I guess am going to have to learn some. It is good to have new challenges, and if I dont keep learning I wont keep growing. Cnat (which in my mind has always been Cawk!) is an obvious one, and I have come across Eb/D#. What is the next one after those? And is there a nice slow tune to learn it in?
And thanks for the kind words about my playing, Ben. I have spent so much of my life believing that I was not musical that it still feels odd to be able to make sounds people enjoy.
Odd or not, Phill, you’re making a nice sound. I like it.
Fnat is the one I would go for next - by far the best half-holed rather than cross-fingered, IMHO. Try Tabhair Dom Do Lamh. Great tune, everybody knows it and you can get a really good tone out of that top Fnat, with maybe a bit of finger wobble (well, OK, maybe not that) and diaphragm push to really point it up (small warning - I love this sound, but some seem to hate it, may be they’re non-traddies 
; Hs for Cs and all that).