aftermarket stoppers

Hi all,

Just an idea for those of you that aren’t happy with your stoppers. On the Wooden Flute list recently there was a post mentioning Delrin stoppers with caps made by Robert Bigio (www.bigio.com) The poster had purchased one for his Seery, and reported a definite improvement in response and lower register tone. The cost is around $60 U.S., which includes delrin stopper with O-ring, a Blackwood cap, and a tool for inserting the stopper. The maker recommends using the cap that is included as he has incorporated a design into that as well that is supposed to enhance overall effect. I intend to get one myself, when I do get it, I’ll let everyone know how it works out.

Corin

Very interesting indeed. I’m looking forward to your review. Hope this works out for you.

I recently got one of these for my wood Powell. What it did for me was make the flute (Boehm style) more flexible, a bit more resonant, and easier to play in the third octave. All in all, it was a good investment for me.

Dana

Interesting, verrrrrrry interesting.

I’ll also be quite interested to hear what you think, Corin. Did you have to give the diameter of your headjoint, or am I retarded and that measurement is so standard that, well, Bigio didn’t need it?



Stuart

I haven’t actually yet placed the order. The bore diameter is needed, which the maker suggests doing with Vernier calipers. I’m going to go to a machine shop and have them do it.

Corin

Have you gotten your crown/stopper ordered, Corin?

I’m just reviving this thread because I’m curious!

Stuart

Mark Hoza (http://www.woodenflutemaker.com) uses Biggio-esque stoppers in his flutes and heads. I have one of the heads, and i like the stopper. I’m not sure it changes the sound in any way, but it’s easier to handle and more convenient than a cork stopper.

How could a stopper possible change the sound of a flute, assuming that the current stopper seals well and has a smooth surface perpendicular to the bore? Has any experienced/accomplished player experimented with a new stopper?
Is a flat surface necessarily what we want? Any comments regarding the effect that a concave or convex end face might have on the sound?

Check out Bigio’s site:
http://www.bigio.demon.co.uk/crowns.html

He thinks the thin stopper supported by the O-Ring is able to vibrate, and this adds something to the sound. Mark Hoza makes his headjoints extra large to the left of the stopper, to increase the size of this “vibration chamber”.

Whatever… flutes are so weird in doing things they shouldn’t do. I have the highest opinion about the sound of my Hoza headjoint, but i haven’t done any comparisons of Bigio-style versus traditional stoppers.

g

A flute player… retarded?

Stuart: I haven’t had a chance to order yet. No time to get the bore measured since things got busy. Soon I hope.

David: I would imagine that a cork that doesn’t have a smooth face would affect things, more turbulent airflow and whatnot. The cork in my headjoint is not the smoothest. It seems to catch a lot of moisture which beads in the surface which adds to the roughness. Also, it is pure cork, rather than cork covered delrin, so shrinkage can occur which can also affect things. Also, the stopper comes with a replacement cap in Blackwood, that has a small hole in the center, Bigio states that this hole accounts for the change as well. I wonder about convex/concave stoppers, I’d imagine that might present some intonation problems, unless the bore were reworked or stopper position altered. But, I’m no flutemaker so my opinion isn’t worth too much! By the way, I meant to ask you this when I first saw your name, but I think you’re the same David Levine my father used to know. James Meehan ring a bell?

Corin

I’ll come clean and say that yes, I have ordered one myself. I made the measurements earlier today, actually, and then called Robert Bigio to give him my credit card number (for the £35 or whatever it’ll cost). We got to talking . . . and he said a number of things which I found quite interesting.

The first thing he said was that I might be quite surprised. He himself says that he can’t understand why the stopper makes a difference, but it does seem to. Remember that this is also a crown-stopper combo, and there might also be some interaction between a stopper held by O-rings and a crown held by O-rings.

Just so that everyone can look, Bigio’s page on the stoppers is here. He told me to be sure to check out this page, which is a copy of an article published in the British Flute Society’s magazine, Pan, describing an amateur flute player’s experiments with different stopper materials. Those pages suggest that the original idea, not Bigio’s but someone elses, was to rid the headjoint of cork all together, as it was (and is still) thought that the cork was dampening vibrations.

As to the surface . . . for cylindrical headjoints (like on a simple-system flute), Bigio makes a two-sided stopper. One face is flat, the other is grooved. The grooved surface, he says, seems to respond in a similar way to a concave surface, but is easier to place (in the bore) with precision.

One comment that Robert made to me is that he doesn’t know that these stoppers make any difference in how an instrument sounds, but they sure as heck seem to make a difference for the player. It could be placebo effect. It sounds like an interesting experiment, though . . . so I’m all for it.


Stuart

Both the crown and stopper/cork assembly can make a tremendous difference to a headjoint, in resistance, sound and response. Many stoppers have additional cork, which keeps part of the headjoint from freely vibrating. The weight and material of the crown also can make a big difference. I’ve played around with these on various flutes of mine for years.

What’s interesting to me: I just got the Bigio crown and stopper assembly for my wood Powell, and I liked it: It made the sound a bit more resonant, and definitely more responsive. I let my friend try the setup on her Abell headjoint, and it sounded just awful. It took all the depth and character of the Abell headjoint away. I also tried it on my silver flute, and felt like it deadened the sound a bit. So there you are…

I guess you have to find the setup that’s best for you and for your flute.

Dana

Right, Dana! And it’s kind of cool, like finding out . . . hmm.

No analogy comes to mind. But hey, a flute tweak that’s non-destructive!

:smiley:

Stuart

Yeah, and it’s about the only tweak I feel safe doing.

I have a gold crown on my silver flute that makes it sound absolutely lush. I’ve done blind tests with a very discriminating flutist friend of mine, comparing the gold crown to the original silver crown. The gold wins hands down each time.

Dana

Have you really done double-blind, where your discriminating friend puts the crown in the headjoint, and you don’t know which you’re playing, and your friend doesn’t know which is in the headjoint? Or a third party? Isn’t the gold one heavier, so you’d know which was in the flute? I don’t mean to be argumentative, but you didn’t include a methods section in your abstract. :laughing:

Seriously, I think double-blind tests are great, and you’ll get no arguments from me (other than logistics of doing the DBT). I know they turn into UGLY fights when it comes to music, though . . . and I really don’t know why. Except that maybe they often don’t show what people want them to show.

And I agree with you that it’s the only tweak I’m willing to do. Other than switching headjoints, which is even more painless. Less painful? More pain-free?

Stuart

Considering you need a caliper measure of the diameter it could be that the Bigio stopper was the wrong size for the Abell head. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Aaron

I used to have a blackwood Boehm head by Terry McGee, and I installed a Bigio stopper, which certaintly did give the flute a different feel and sound (more resonant and ringing). However, I ultimately wound up putting the original cap and stopper assembly back in, and Jeff Weissman (Queens, NY) added a few ounces of weight to the assembly, which made the headjoint darker and more resistant. This could explain why Dana’s gold crown is preferable to the silver one–increased weight.
Micah

Sorry to reopen this old thread, but I didn’t want to start a new one.

I just got a Bigio zirconium stopper for my wood Powell. It’s incredible. I feel that I can push the flute further than I ever have been able to (great for breath pulses). I’d formerly been playing the flute with the Bigio delrin stopper and my original Powell crown, which worked better than using the Bigio crown. Now the best combination is the Bigio zirconium stopper and the Bigio crown.

It gives me a big, dramatic sound that can get as edgy as I want it to, but can also be subtle. I can feel and sort of hear the vibration of the zirconium, especially in the upper-middle register (not sure if I like that part). I’ve played several different sorts of stoppers in flutes through the years, and this definitely feels and sounds different. It could be the hardness and weight of the zirconium, in a short stopper. You get to push against the metal weight, but it doesn’t take away too much of the vibration area of the headjoint, as a cork assembly can.

Just thought I’d add: I tried it in my silver flute, bit I like it much better in the wood flute.

Dana

I put a Bigio (delrin) stopper in my Copley, and I’m very pleased with the increased resonance and responsiveness. Crazy what a piece of plastic can do!
Edited to add that as Copley’s crown is already friction fit (similar to Bigio’s), and my flute is mopane, I decided not to get the Bigio crown. There is of course no hole in the Copley crown, and with it removed the effect of increased vibrancy is very dramatic, but I like the sound and feel as the flute is with the original crown. Interestingly, the original Copley stopper is also delrin held in place with an O-ring, but it’s slightly longer and slightly heavier than the Bigio stopper; it also lacks the small groove in the stopper face, which has a distinct effect.
Further edited to add that I’ve reverted to the original stopper…a little less responsive, but darker, and I can push it harder.