I was listening to some amazing live recordings of sessions by some great trad musicians, and then a few thoughts crossed my mind.
I don’t know if some of you have seen the movie “Good Will Hunting”. This guy, he knows everything, he’s read all the books, he’s a real library. But at the end of the day, he’s afraid to “live” the damn life.
You can only really know how it feels to be in Moscow by actually going there. Seeing pictures of the Kremlin is one thing, but to actually sit somewhere, and have some vodka, sit with some russians, discuss about their thoughts and the way they see life over there… That’s worth a thousand books about Russia. I’ve never been there, I’m only gussing
It just strikes me how much you must be missing when you learn ITM from sheet music. I mean, sometimes I learn tunes from sheet music, when I don’t have a recording. But I think that to actually have a “sheet music” culture in irish music is like living a superficial and wealthy life, with your 3 cars, 2 houses, never to realize that there’s actually another dimension to life than the one you’re actually living.
I don’t know why I was thinking about that, but I had to write it down
Azalin, I can’t imagine how a person would come to ITM without having heard it first. If you listen to ITM constantly, then it will quickly become apparent the sheet music only has the bare bones of the music. The rest is up to the player to apply their understanding of the music and the ornamentation from what they hear.
I’m sure we’d all like to be able to afford the luxury of actually going to Ireland, or baring that, to some place closer by that has top-notch players. Maybe a Willie Week (or two, or three …) but we do what we can with what we’ve got, and moping about what is beyond the budget serves no purpose.
I like this image, and I think you are right Az. Instead of mellowing with age, I find myself more and more radical on this point. Today I am convinced that you cannot learn to play Irish Traditional Music unless you learn the Music by ear.
Before I go on, let me make the two usual and customary disclaimers: (1) Once you have the Music, sheet music is of course useful to store and retrieve tunes, and not something I’d advocate abolishing. (2) Everybody gets to do what he or she wants and play what he or she wants (but they don’t get to call it Irish Traditional Music if it isn’t).
Two things have taught me that learning by ear is indispensible. First, my own experience. Not only did I learn so much more and better when I started learning the Music by ear, I also began to listen in a way that I could not previously. There is much in the Music that I could not hear before I started learning by ear, even though I was listening a lot. Listening a lot and playing from sheet music did not give me nearly the same access to the Music than learning by ear does.
Second, listening to the playing of sheet-music advocates. I have never heard a musician who managed to learn this Music from sheet music, nor have I heard reliable reports of the existence of such a musician. This is admittedly anecdotal and non-scientific. But everyone whom I have seen advocating learning by ear, or even stating that there are two valid approaches, and whose clips I had an opportunity to hear, did not have the Music. I have not heard anyone play the Music properly who did not insist on learning the Music by ear. Extrapolating from my own experience I have come to expect that unless and until a musician has started learning the Music by ear, he or she does not hear the Music, and is therefore not in a position to judge whether learning from sheet music is as effective as learning by ear.
That is why I like Az’ image about the foreign country: We all agree that the only way to see whether Russia looks anything like the pictures of Russia is to actually go there. And for those who stayed home to tell those who went to Russia that you don’t have to go to Russia in order to know what it’s like… well, you can see where I am going with this.
Note to those who are inclined to object to my writing of playing the Music “properly”: see disclaimer no. 2, above.
Thanks Bloom. The big problem when you listen a lot, and tend to learn by ear, and tend to appreciate ITM style, is that it’s then very hard to find a session where you are going to actually be happy to be around. I mean, beside the private sessions, I tend to dislike more and more the public sessions in my city, where it seems that most of the time the playing sucks big time.
This semester I was playing badminton. Being very busy, I go there for one purpose: to sweat! But a few weeks ago, a woman started coming with us, and she wasnt good at all. It was so bad that when she was playing, I ended up walking and therefore not exercise at all. I stopped going, as I told the others, if I want to be social I’ll go see a movie, but when I play badminton it’s to get my heart pumping.
For me it’s the same with sessions, if you can’t get much from it, if the music produced by the people over there won’t move you, there’s no point in going.
My point is, the more you get into listening and discovering the subtlelties (sorry for the spelling) of irish music, the hardest it is to actually be happy in a session. You can’t always have Stephen Jones and Brad Hurley around! (and then Stephen would tell me I’d have to stop talking to actually appreciate the music!).
Azalin, I had heard there were quite a few people into ITM in Montréal. Your description of the sessions sounds a lot like the ones that tried to get going a few times around here - all beginners looking for good players to teach them and bring them on, instead of a meeting of good players really enjoying the music and themselves. Thus my previous reference to travelling a bit to find good sessions.
I dunno, the session scene is somewhat chaotic in Montreal at the moment. There’s no leadership and newbies are getting a free run. I mean, some very loud guitar player and some wannabe flute players are loweting the quality a lot, and the best players from around here don’t show at sessions anymore. That’s pretty sad.
The one thing that struck me when reading your post is puzzlement at why you automatically equate being wealthy with living a superficial life… If anything, being wealthy would allow you to travel to Moscow more often.
Apart from that, didn’t we agree a while back that whomever started a thread about ear vs. sheet music had to buy all chiffers a pint?
Hehe, I could say a few things on the sheet music arguement but it would again fall upon deaf ears. There are those who get it and then there are those who you talk bad about when they stop playing to go to the bar for a drink.
I will add this (and azalin it even goes for you) if you don’t listen to really good recordings more than the time you spend practising you will never pick up the nuances of the music and you will suck forever! I figured that out long ago. YOU gotta immerse yourself in teh music at every available moment like squeezing in a half hour of paddy in the smoke on the drive to work, 15 minutes of the geezer files while you do the dishes, 2 hours of Macmahon while you do your homework, 45 minutes of Kevin Henry while you walk the dog… it doesn’t matter when and where just listen as much as you can and it will seep into you head, hands and feet before you know it. How do you think those little Irish brats are so good? They grew up with it and where steeped in it, so if you want teh same results you must get steeped in it too. Listening to the good stuff as much as possible is the key, I hear people say oh I practised for 3 hours last night or I’ve been practising about 2 hours a day 7 days a week… well that don’t mean a thing unless you spend twice that much time listening. Because if you don’t listen at all and practise 3 hours a night, you will get really good… really good at playing like crap. Horrible rhythm, bad phrasing, no energy, just long strings of notes not tied together that sounds like utter crap… that’s all there is to it.
Hehe, you guys make not having sessions in your local area sound like a bad thing. Think about it as a blessing. This way you don’t have to pick up bad habits from that hack with the copeland down the street and all the other stuff that goes on in sessions… cause you should know by now that the playing in sessions is less than acceptable. (unless you’re peter laban and know all the good spots ) YOu guys gotta think at it from this angle… now you’re only influences are teh best of the best… you’re recoridngs of John Mckenna, Willie Clancy, Morrison, Coleman, Hayes, O’loughin, Patsy Hanly are your only influences and teachers… what could be better than that? In fact in many instances not having a session in your area might be your saving grace. I know it was mine!
London, Ontario. There is absolutely nothing happening here ITM-wise. I have to go to TO where there’s a sufficiently large Irish community and top-notch players to listen to and to learn from.
you guys make not having sessions in your local area sound like a bad thing. Think about it as a blessing.
But what are you learning for if not to eventually share the music, and isn’t that what a session is all about? One way to improve your session is to ban all guitars and bouzoukis. I even look askance at banjos, but mandolins are not usually too intrusive.
its good to have sheets but not to be constrained by them.
I don’t know about this. It gets awfully cold here at night.
You’re right, my description is kinda short and lacking more information! I have met a couple of people who match the description of what I was trying to describe, and it’s more about the way they’ve been raised than the actual money they make.
Hmmm, hey, my initial post wasnt really about ear vs sheet! Spare me the pints!
Azalin, I had heard there were quite a few people into ITM in Montréal. Your description of the sessions sounds a lot like the ones that tried to get going a few times around here - all beginners looking for good players to teach them and bring them on, instead of a meeting of good players really enjoying the music and themselves. Thus my previous reference to travelling a bit to find good sessions.
Sounds like the perfect environment to start a slow session!
djm: Waterloo-Wellington has a LOT of good ITM (and other stuff-- scottish, bretton and welsh come to mind) but importantly, we now have a Comhaltas branch… you should come and check it out some time.
Also, I have a hard time listening to what contradancy groups do to the tunes. The WhiskyTones have decided never to play one again. We spent weeks and weeks getting tunes just right, then ironed em out for that occassion and were messed up afterwards. Fuggedaboutit.
I hear people say oh I practised for 3 hours last night or I’ve been practising about 2 hours a day 7 days a week… well that don’t mean a thing unless you spend twice that much time listening. Because if you don’t listen at all and practise 3 hours a night, you will get really good… really good at playing like crap. Horrible rhythm, bad phrasing, no energy, just long strings of notes not tied together that sounds like utter crap… that’s all there is to it.
I’m Inclined to agree as I’m finding that the more I listen to, the more there is to inspire me and show me possibilities that I may never have figured out by myself. It’s kind of like the difference between learning a language from a book in a place where nobody speaks it, and going to the country where it is spoken to immerse yourself in it.
As a newbie I pretty much avoid sessions anyway. I would rather see a band who’s members all know each other and have a good set put together than see a few good musicians surrounded by not so good musicians who are tolerated out of courtesy(if that is what generally goes on). I prefer to gather with friends and have a private session where noone would have any expectations that are above my level.
I have never learned to read music. Every tune I have learned is by ear. For some people this works, for others it dosen’t. Alot of those tunes and variations I learned from playing in session with other musicians. I am very fortunate that I play with and take lessons from great musicans in my area. With listening all I own is ITM C.Ds, and I have to agree with Azalin in that listening is one of the main elements of learning the music. Playing in a session in my opinion is a great learning tool also.
No sarcasm intended!
