Why are Irish sessions so fraught?

Trad Irish Music
1

I’ve been attending an old-time jam for about 2 years now. I was invited by someone at the Irish session. He said come along, it’s really friendly. Even though I told him I didn’t know how to play my fiddle at all.

After 2 years, I can scratch out a tune here or there on my fiddle. I learned them all during the old-time sessions and very few of them at home off the computer. Everybody there learns the tunes during the session. Somebody starts a tune and by a few times around most people have the gist of it and they’re playing it and enjoying it. If you mess up, nobody gives you a dirty look. If you are a beginner and start a tune, they play along with you at your speed.

Why can’t Irish sessions be like that? Why are they so scary? Why is learning a tune during the session such a huge no-no? Why are they so fraught with secret glances sent between people and people shunning others for not being virtuosos or for (god forbid) starting a tune they refuse to play anymore? There’s so much pressure at Irish sessions!

A beginner Irish musician must resort to learning tunes off the computer. You have to find a tune that’s reasonably close to something at the session, then find a way to get it into your computer, find some software to slow it down, struggle to learn because whoever on the CD probably changed the key it was in or is playing it so fancy and so full of variations and ornaments that you aren’t sure what the simple basic tune is anymore. You do your best in total isolation and then with a trembling lip at the session, try to toot out something that has as few errors in it as possible and hope people there don’t get mad.

Did the Irish ever learn from each other? Was there ever a time when learning tunes involved learning them from musicians in real life? Was there ever a time when sessions were friendly, interactive, supportive and fun for everyone? Or have they always been so fraught?

2

Sounds like SOMEone needs to look for another session… They AREN’T all like that!

3

Haven’t been to an awful lot of sessions, have you?

4

I’ve seen both (OT and Irish) both ways (strict and loose). I think you’re overgeneralizing by labeling all Irish sessions based on your one. Some are for learners and some aren’t. Both have their place. I’ve also been to Old Time jams where you were expected to know the tune or sit out. Again, it has it’s place. I agree with you that if you only have access to one and it’s of the variety you don’t like, then you’re stuck. I’ve been there too so I’ve learned on my computer, and that has it’s place too.

John

5

I’ve been to my one, but I also read what is said on these forums and thesession.org. It just seems that Irish sessions create a lot of nervousness and require people to have to learn from computers rather than each other. It just seems sad.

6

So why are you doing it then? “Learning” from a computer? You’ve “learned” from a computer that “all” irish sessions are like that. If that’s a sad way to learn, than perhaps you should get out more, take your own advice, and all that.

As others have said, you need to get out more, they aren’t all like that. There are definitely beginner friendly sessions. And I would think that most people would be quite a bit more friendly if you weren’t just learning tunes from a computer! Maybe you should find a teacher or a mentor…

7

To be fair, I think there’s a fair few Irish sessions that are just like that. The bitchiness is terrific … If you don’t think that’s the case, it’ll be because you haven’t noticed. They will have noticed that.

8

Well sure, I’m not saying I’d run a session that was just a complete free-for-all, everybody catered to, and the only goal that everybody plays all night and has loads of fun. So I’d probably get accused of running a fraught or bitchy session. At least by somebody who doesn’t get to play all night on every set of tunes, anyway. Or guitar and bodhran players.

9

10

I think the internet is fraught with people who have strange misconceptions about what ‘a session’ is and even more un-realistic ones about what a session ‘should be’.

I always try see a session as a conversation among friends. You can’t expect any stranger who butts in, often without knowing what the conversation is about, to be made welcome. And that hasn’t even considered the ones who just barge in and sit down to join in without any introductions at all.

Personally, I wouldn’t likely join any session uninvited, or join one that is made up entirely of people I don’t know. And if there’s nice music going, I’d first ask myself the question whether or not I had anything to contribute. Sitting down to listen can be more rewarding.

Common sense and a bit of social intelligence go a long way.

11

“Always” is a long time. It’s much longer than the history of the Irish pub session, which is a fairly recent invention, as I understand. It appears that (based on references in scholarly works) Irish pub sessions originated in London in the 1950’s. Irish immigrants got together and played the tunes from home.

Here’s an interesting bit of reading on what it would have been like prior to the advent of the session:

http://www.standingstones.com/session.html

If you’re in the USA you can read Francis O’Neill’s Irish folk music: a fascinating hobby, with some account of allied subjects on google books, which will give you some observations about Irish music 100 years ago. On page 16 he talks about taking flute lessons in Ireland as a boy from a man who only played in his own house. He describes the circumstances where he learned other tunes from various people. It’s all pretty interesting really. FWIW, neither of the words “session” or “pub” appears in the book.

12

The first session I spent any time at was quite the pressure cooker. There were plenty of egos, knowing looks, shunning, gossip and talking behind people’s backs, cliquishness and the various things that sbfluter mentioned. Now, not everyone at the session behaved that way, but there were enough that this kind of thing went on every week.

I found the situation frustrating, and probably at least once a month I came home complaining and swearing I’d never go back. But I always did. Because no matter how much I disliked a lot of the insular politics, the music was pretty phenomenal, and I credit that time with helping me make great strides in my music. I’ve since moved away, and while I really don’t miss many of the people in that session, I’ll always be grateful that in order to eke out any sort of acceptance with many of them, I had to work extremely hard. I think the experience really moved me forward as a musician in a way that a more accepting environment might not have.

13

Yeah, all that proves is that some fora are
fraught with complainers. It will probably be
easier to find people recounting bad experiences
than good ones. Although, I guess as with any
social situation, to a large extent you’ll get out
what you put into it.

When I think about it, dramaless Irish sessions
in my area outnumber difficult or insular ones
by a large margin. Maybe we need a survey,
mute.

And while I’m shooting off-the-cuff observations,
much respect to Wanderer for a fascinating
insight.

14

I think the Irish session I go to might feel a bit fraught to others, but a fair bit of tune swapping goes on and friendly banter, but then I consider myself “on the inside” as it were.

I’ve heard others describe it to musicians at other sessions as too fast with lots of tunes they don’t know and therefore elitist.

There are loads of sessions in the area catering to all kinds of musicians. The Irish session is fast and there are many unusual tunes. That’s why I go and perhaps why it doesn’t suit everyone.

I’ve also been to the famous Hershel pub in Slough near London, UK where it is not uncommon for the best names to turn to play. I didn’t play there. It was too scary. But the landlord was absolutely amazing.

15

I feel I just have to share this now. I’m on my own with these little tunes and the way they’re played. You can’t bring them to a session really, you know how these Irish sessions are, everybody wants to pretty much to play together. So if you introduce something new and most people don’t bring tape reorders to sessions any more.

So you play it once and you’re on your own and you > were to come back the next week and play it again, you would be rather rude, or perceived to be rude maybe, > so if you have something nice it was a forum to just go ahead and put them out and say “There, now in your own time you can take that in and if you like it you can learn it or know it and if you don’t, that’s fine too.”

(emphasis added)

Liz Carroll, a decade ago, talking about why she records CDs, in an interview on “Thistle and Shamrock.”

If she feels it, then there must be something to it.

16

There are as many different kinds of sessions as there are kinds of players. I’ve picked up great tunes at beginner sessions and at advanced ones (or at least the names of the tunes; then I go home and work on them there). I’ve also sat and listened on a few occasions, too – just because it’s called a jam session doesn’t mean the overall goal shouldn’t be nice music, and if my jamming doesn’t contribute to it, then I’m better off listening (still working on the self-control to do this more often – sorry to everyone whose tunez I’ve inadvertently ruinedz!). I wouldn’t complain if a few more people were willing to entertain this notion …

Frankly, I don’t care for the terms “slow” and “fast” even though they’re most convenient because to me it’s really not about speed; like Nico and Mr. G. said, it’s about the quality of the music. And people have different ideas about what makes quality music, especially at different points in their playing. I’m at the place where I’m mostly able to keep up with some of the more advanced players at various gatherings, but there’ve been times when I’ve found myself parked at “slow” sessions just because the music’s more appealing to me than what I’m hearing at the more “advanced” ones. It might be a session with a “first 50 tunes” repertoire, but there’s a loveliness and musicality to the effort that eclipses the other sessions. Bottom line, ya just never know. I have found, however, the GOOD sessions are the ones where people listen sympathetically with an ear to what makes the music better. The BAD sessions are the ones where everyone plays in a sort of musical shouting contest and no one pays attention to what the music sounds like.

Anyway (and I’m speaking broadly here), if you want a slower/faster/different session, why don’t you start one? If it’s a slow session, ask the bar owner or whoever if you can start an hour before the regular session. See who comes, and then see who stays for the fast one. You might be surprised at how much overlap you get some days.

We’ve started making the first hour of our session an optional “slow/tune-learning” time, and make it a point to be there to help anyone new. After all, it’s in our best interest to grow more players :slight_smile: Sometimes people show up for it; sometimes they don’t, but at least they’ve had the chance. At 6 p.m. all bets are off, but sometimes we stay slow and in learning/listening/music-making (as opposed to tune-playing) mode for another two hours and everyone, even the advanced players, goes home happily saying “Nice music today.”

Finally, if there’s a tune you want your session to learn, ask them! If it’s a good tune that people like, someone will want to pick it up. Just be prepared to play for someone’s recorder :smiley:

And one day, as you’ve advanced along the path, all this will make more sense. But just as it’s rude for advanced players to flatten beginners, it’s also unfair for beginners to hold more advanced players back. They’ve put in the time and the work and are just farther along the path. Ideally, everyone will be gracious and find some balance, though, because nice music can come from anywhere and anyone if we’d all be polite and listen.

One other thing – me, I wouldn’t compare the learning process for old-timey tunes to the learning process for Irish tunes. Irish tunes emphasize a sort of melodic journey, and old-timey tunes emphasize a progression, groove and some variations, among other things. They’re also played about 10 times each as a matter of course, which does help get them in one’s ear. Not that Irish and old-timey music don’t work together, but I think they’re very different kinds of music that are played differently, and philosophically tend to attract different kinds of people.

So there’s some stuff to think about. Good luck and happy music!

17

It may be well worth considering staying out of sessions until you are well able to carry a tune on your own.

I have come across a lot of people who sit in at sessions all the time who, when playing on their own or in duet, turn out to be quite inarticulate and messy players. If you can’t carry a tune well enough on your own and need a group as a crutch, it’s better for everybody if you sit and listen and practice at home until you are strong enough as a player to make a positive musical contribution.

18

I feel that too many want-to-be sessioners skip the important step of listening. Especially if you’re new at the music or your instrument, you have no business doing anything at a session other than going regularly to listen, and politely introducing yourself to the regulars in a non-intrusive way when appropriate. Might be a good place to find yourself a tutor as well if you approach it with sense and respect.

Take a look at your expectations and whether you have the right to impose them on an existing community which you are not part of. A session is not a public service that everyone has a right to. It’s a community like any other and I can’t figure out why people expect to show up a stranger (or a beginner stranger at that) and have their intrusions and noodling welcomed. That’s not to say a community can’t and won’t be welcoming to non-regulars, but it’s all in how it’s approached.

If you don’t want to learn off the internet/CD’s (which is not the first thing I would recommend either) then take a recorder with you to the session (after you’ve made introductions and received permission) and get the tunes from the source. Many digital recorders even have a slow/fast playback option and if not then you can surely find a method of slowing the recorded audio on your computer.

Finally, every session isn’t going to be ideal for every player. No different than trying to find a suitable school, church, bridge club, etc. If you live where there’s only one session and it’s not your cup of tea then that’s a shame but hardly a case for such generalities as the OP.

19

To a certain extent this is cultural. Irish culture is a little less tolerant of fumbling amateurs and a little less inclined to see mere effort as something laudable in itself.

Every culture has its own ways of showing off, and the pretense of effortless, offhand mastery is the irish way. In other words, you’re supposed to conceal all the effort that went into attaining that mastery. Put in the hours in the woodshed while pretending you have done no such thing, and don’t play in public until you damn well know what you’re doing.

Outsiders, particularly those in cultures that are more tolerant of public beginnerism, often see the casual pose and the (feigned) disregard for practice and hard work and take this for the underlying reality, but this is far from the case. The casual attitude does not mean that all are included and everyone will be welcome, no matter the skill.

Yes, all of the above is a gross generalization, but it’s more true than it is false. And yes, not all sessions - particularly those elsewhere - reflect this attitude, but nonetheless it colours ITM session culture to varying extents.

20

Some really good and insightful answers here, I think.

Barry Foy’s “Field Guide to the Irish Music Session” might be worth a read. Also Ciaran Carson’s “Last Night’s Fun”.