…bit of a non sequitur, heh!
… more salt, baby?
Denny
I am farley new to transverse flutes, but not to groups of nasty people…at least cannibalistic ones. My take on this issue is based on a “lively debate” I got into when I first started going to C&F. You see….while I am farley new to transverse flutes I have been playing the Native American flute for many years. The musical philosophy of Native American’s in regard to their flutes is very different from the musical philosophy of traditional Irish music players.
One is not any better than the other, they are just different. Just as a sliver flute or wooden flute is not any better than the other, they are just different.
I, however, entered C&F with my Native American philosophy of music as I figured that the website was mostly dedicated to whistles (flageolets, the same family Native American flutes are in). To make a long story short, I got wrapped up in a debate over “tune” vs. “song”. You see, in Native American flute music the flute sings or announces the same as a human voice singing. In traditional Native American flute music there are no terms for differentiation between instrumental songs and sung songs.
There are many people on the C&F that think whistle = Irish music or flute = Irish music, but the same musical instrument can be used for any kind or genre of music. I think that as long as C&F is dedicated to the musical instruments themselves and not necessary the type of music people play with them, developing a “rating system” for the users will be very hard. As I have pointed out, the simple differences in music philosophy can cause disagreements. And the sad thing about all of this is that music like art, there is no “right” or “correct” answer.
I think that if people have disagreements there are ways to express views without growing nasty to each other. I was called all kinds of “bad” words over “tune” and “song” and when I came out and told them where I was coming from the disagreement ended.
Lets face it, people who use whistles and wooden flutes for jazz, blue grass, blues, and Native American type music will not adopt Irish terminology just as people who play traditional Irish music should not be expected to adopt jazz or blues terms.
I prefer to just have nasty posts deleted. If a hierarchy is developed C&F will find itself in a small and closed world.
C&F doesn’t need to develop a hierarchy; it already has one. At least, the Flute Forum does. The Flute Experts know exactly where they rank everyone and they use the ranking freely.
You can see it in the response Medb got to her post.
She responded to a post of interest to her and someone blew her off. She wasn’t the one who was off-topic–the Experts with the recipes were. She seems to have responded to the on-topic posts in an old thread, perhaps not noticing the date, and it does appear that she was ridiculed for that.
Far from being something to ridicule, it appears that she is reading the archives to become better informed, which ought to be commendable.
Did anyone see her as a valuable resource? She looks like one to me.
I qualify for a “0” rating on your expertise scale, as you know. I know you know, because Experts have told me so.
You might not know that I’m good in other things. I do have a career, after all, and I’m accomplished in that, and in a few other areas as well. I might have something to contribute on some not-strictly-musical questions.
But, after being soundly stomped–once for not being serious enough–I’ve begun to refrain from sharing in public, even when I could have contributed something that might have been of use.
Someone asked why the beginning of songs go well and the second part falls apart–I could share what my college piano teacher told me about that when I had the same trouble.
I also didn’t share a helpful thing to do for aches resulting from overuse and bad mechanics, a subject about which I have more than a few clues. There were some good suggestions on that one, but none of the experts mentioned anything to do once you already have the ache.
Now, I don’t want y’all to think I’m just complaining, because I’m not. I do understand that it’s frustrating for experienced people to deal with the perpetual, ever-renewing onslaught of newbies. I’m an Expert myself on another board where we have that same difficulty. I know that some Experts find newbies tiresome–I find them a strain myself.
On that other board, we’ve solved the problem by establishing a Newbie Forum. That gives them a place to ask their newbie questions and conduct discussions in a warm and positive environment. Any Experts who are there are there because they want to be there. The Experts who don’t want to be there can enjoy a newbie-free zone of their own.
Lots of space for newbies to explore the rudiments of their new interest and lots of peace and quiet in which the erudite can massage one another.
Everyone benefits handsomely.
Perhaps if the newbies asked nicely of our host, he’d accommodate us with a little corner of our own, where we can natter on without offending anyone. 
<Interesting post about the native American flute, by the way. I enjoyed it.>
Peggy,
You know, I think you’re onto something here.
Where’s Dale hiding?
– Daryl
PS: I liked the Native American flute posting, too. I play one too, and often tend to go off into meditative stuff when I’m playing either that or the transverse flute. I am still working to learn ITM, but it’s not all I play. I’d love to see a forum in C&F for things other than ITM!
The current system provides only the ‘post count’ as a way of identifying the dedicated board user but this of course only gives an indication of how many opinions that user has and NOT whether they are actually worth listening to.
May I just say I am NOT actually worth listening to? :roll:
Thank you very much
Please continue…
There is actually a board on this forum for the nigh on to God experts but you have to have the special login password, a purchase receipt for an Olwel/Noy/Wilkes etc and also affidavitt from either matt Molloy or Seamus Tansey!
But don’t go there personally I find the meaningless drivel spices up those tasty crunchy nuts of learned wisdom we are occasionaly graced with. Every time I’ve tried baby I thought it was overrated.
Yeah that’s good…shove the newbies into their little “corner”…yeesh…personally, I’ve always welcomed newbies…if there weren’t new people to performing a certain type of music or new people who are interested in something, then that music or that thing might just die out.
And what do you do if someone’s a long-time whistle player, but a newbie to the flute? Or someone who’s a long-time musician of some other sort, but a newbie to the whistle or some other instrument? Do they then have to only chat in the newbie forum, where they get questions from people new to music PERIOD? Where do you draw the line?
~Crysania
I feel bad for Medb. She started a thread asking for flute suggestions and, as expected, all of the “experts” came out of the woodworks and completely hijacked a thread.
Then she revives this thread which was a bad joke from the start. sigh It’s not your fault Medb. It’s a wrong place, wrong time scenario.
There are no “experts” on this forum. The folks who could be “experts” either don’t consider themselves as such or have squandered their “expertise” on silly arguments.
Don’t take this forum too seriously. It can be good fun. You can learn a lot. But beyond that it’s just words on a computer screen.
Cheers,
Aaron
I posted recipes. An expert? I think not. I merely lay claim to an embarrassing post count. And the initial post’s intent on this thread was revealed to be that of pulling our collective leg, if anyone will take the time to actually read the content of it and subsequent posts. The “recipes” schtick was inspired by the title of the thread and Jonathan Swift’s work of the same name, and all in good fun. Per the humorous intent of the initial post, the “recipes” are arguably more on-topic, and yet I did take the subject seriously and gave it its due anyway. It was worth discussion. I find it odd to see a need to rehash this.
Well… I’m not seeing your recipe for hash!
Is there a vegetarian version?
Denny
Yes, indeed. Soylami works well. 
That’s better!
Don’t you just hate it when a thread wonders off topic and develops a life of its own?
Denny
Oh, I don’t know. I find thread drift to be entertaining. Usually. Besides, I’m as nutty as a fruitcake, if not moreso. I abide madness well.
et tu fruitcake?
Denny
I was indeed snowed at one point. This is record. As for my fruitcake, for all Ireland I’ll not reveal its recipe. 
I was working at my lath in my shop and this neighbor came in. I knew him and I knew he did not come around unless he wanted something. So I said, “What can I help you with, Jake?” “Well, I kind of wondered if you could make a peg-leg for my daughter.” “What happened to her leg?” “We didn’t want to eat her all at once.”
Part of the thing that’s so interesting about the hostility shown on some of the threads is that it HAS tended to come from the same sources, as has been mentioned. And with a few exceptions, not a lot of (us) have any way to verify anyone’s credentials. Aside, I guess, from the pictures of Flutes Owned, but that just satisfies Treeshark’s requirement for the receipt for a Wilkes/Olwell/Noy (or whatever).
I still strongly believe that, despite the illusion of community, even something like the Chiffboard lacks something which, sociologically speaking, I think is a defining characteristic of a community: accountability. You’re unlikely, in the Real World, to empty your cat’s litterbox on your neighbor’s front steps. You’d be found out, you’d face retaliation, and you might face (depending on the level of escalation) civil or criminal charges. Here, though, well-meaning but potentially ignorant posts are often attacked. Why? Hey, if someone posts something nasty about you, you can always close the browser window, and poof, problem solved. I feel quite strongly that no matter how well we feel like we get to know each other via the board, it is only through means such as local Chiff meetings, local sessions, and local face-to-face meetings that real relationships can be made. Private messages or private emails are an OK substitute, probably, but who among us hasn’t been pleased to meet someone in the flesh . . . and, for better or for worse, realized how our mental images either exceed or fall short of the genuine article?
I’d have to advocate a position of ignoring the flame wars. I think I’ve probably been involved in them in the past, but because I’m not an expert either, I haven’t really been burned. It’s kind of like telling teenagers the only acceptable answer is abstinence, though; in this analogy, I can yell and scream all I want that this is at best a quasimetahemidemisemicommunity, but still, people’s feelings will get hurt when they’re flamed. Or treated like they’re stupid.
No, I’m not living in a Fantasy World Where No One’s Stupid. As George Carlin once said . . . average IQ is 100, so by definition, half the people in the world are dumber than that. And 100 ain’t all that bright. But few deserve attacks for innocent questions.
I recently bought a new car, and I noticed on the web that folks who own said car have a message board a lot like this one, but it has (as was mentioned in the original post) little icons in the poster-identity-square which allow you to add/detract from the poster’s “reputation,” and to report/flag an inflammatory post. I’ve posted a couple of messages, ignorant ones, on that board, and not been flamed. Redirected, sure, but not even in a mean way. And I’ve been reading back posts as well, and I’ve noticed that even people who own competing models of car post and say why they like their Brand Y car better than the model of car to which the forum is devoted . . . and people STILL don’t flame them. They say, “Yeah, your Brand Y is nice, but I still think it’s ugly. ”
Of course, they’re talking about cars, and not about Irish music or instruments. And I think our (C&F) topics tend to be more meaningful/important than talking about cars, so I’m biased. But these online things can work.
I think the tenor of the flute forum on C&F has changed since the shift of certain people to The Board Which Shall Not Be Named. There’s nowhere near as much traffic on TBWSNBN as there is here, but the flute traffic here is down. Interesting, sad, whatever, but it would appear to be a reality.
Newbies should continue to post. They should ask their dumb questions, and we should answer them without ire. There are still people, believe it or not, who are new to this medium of communication. Some people honestly don’t know how to search the archive, or to search the forum, nor do they realize that it can be fruitful. Sometimes, too, a question ought to be re-posed. Opinions change. Take the case of a certain flutemaker, whose flutes have in the past been much belittled by the eEstablishment (e as in email), but whose more recent production seems to be making a lot of people happy. Still there are those who mock those posts as though it might be inconceivable that someone got better at flutemaking.
Seems like I’ve wanted to get a lot off my chest. For that, I apologize. I guess I’ve just kind of enjoyed being involved in C&F (et al.) and I don’t want the board to suffer for the transgressions of the (albeit verbal) few.
Keep the posts coming. Wear an asbestos suit. And leave your matches at home!
Stuart
Well, I do know how to use the search facility here on C&F and I’ve always found it to be as fruitful as a bag of spanners.
For example, suppose someone wants advice on holding the flute. A common enough question. They search for “Holding the flute” hoping for a thread about holding the flute, or maybe pictures. They get 3008 results, because there are 3008 threads with the word ‘flute’ in them.
3009 now with this post, which has nothing to do with how to hold a flute.
You could go all Boolean and try searching for “holding AND the AND flute” and narrow the range down to 151 threads…most of which have bugrall to do with how to hold a flute.
Well, 152 now with this post, which has nothing to do with how to hold a flute.
It’s easier just to post a new question and hope that some kind soul will answer it, even if you know the question’s likely been asked many times before.
Stuart & Gary- any chance you could put those last 2 posts in a new topic? this question deserves it.
maybe this star-crossed topic could be renamed:
“…and this time stay dead!” (R.I.P.: A MODEST PROPOSAL)
/dan
To add a sensible post to my previous facetious one.
I’ve found the backlog of posts hugely useful and it has prevented me from posting tedious questions that have been dealt with ad nauseam.
To seriously address the original topic I post on other unrelated sites, one of which instituted a professional only area, the result sad to say has not been good the new zone is a desert with only the odd post. While the open to all board has lost the pro posts as they don’t like to look like adults having a go on the bouncy castle! I think this board has a good balance of innocence and experience, it is a lot less cliquey and more friendly than most of the computer graphics boards most of which I have given up on.
Rob
Ps oops sorry Bang I must have been tapping this in as you posted!!! 