I have played whistle for almost 2 years now and I’ve been to the all ireland fleadh and all but at Scoil Eisge I got inspired to pick up flute … i was just had a couple of questions about the wooden key of d flutes… is there any where i can get one for a good price like $150-$350 (i no this is very little but i am just a beginner) Everyone suggests Grinter flutes ( sp?) but they seem to be outragously expensive … i am also looking right now at a seery (sp?) flute … I also e-mailed eric kepple of earth sounds about a beginner rose wood flute and found out it was only about $135… but is this possible? i have never heard of him or his company before so i was just wondering if anyone here could give me some feed back ?
thanks soo much !
(also wondering if anyone has the notes for "The Long Note (for whistle) and if so could you post them ?) cant find them anywhere .
I’d suggest either a Dixon polymer or an Olwell Bamboo. Both are terrific instruments, very nearly as good as the big shot flutes, and are within your price range.
If you have smaller hands you might do better with the Dixon.
Good Luck,
Doc
To aire is human, to jig..divine.
[ This Message was edited by: Doc Jones on 2003-02-26 15:11 ]
Reel…take it from someone who followed your path…DON’T buy a cheap wooden flute. It is probably made in Pakistan, will crack in 6 months, not be playable.
I don’t know much about other polymer flutes, but I just got an M&E, and have it from many sources that the money spent on it was well worth it, and that its a great beginner flute. The basic model sells at the top of the dollar range you mentioned.
I’m sure you’ll get a lot of responses here, but I was highly disappointed by the ‘wonderful bargain’ I picked up in Ireland three years ago.
I’ll add another post for a Dixon 3 piece polymer. Dixon makes cheaper single or 2 piece PVC flutes, but they are not a true conical bore flute like your expensive wooden ones. M&E, Dixon, and Seery all make highly regarded polymer flutes for between about $190 (Dixon) up to nearly $400 (Seery or M&E depending on the options).
If you really want wood, I have a nice wood fife from Ralph Sweet (Sweetheart flute company), but others have reported you really need to try his flutes because of variations in quality. I think his run $250 for non-rosewood (maple, apple, walnut) or $350 for rosewood.
Personally, try a search on this board and see what comes up for “cheap flute” or “beginner flute”.
I do love my Dixon though, and I really, really like the sound clips of M&Es I’ve heard, and the same is true of the Seery stuff I’ve heard.
Opinion: I suggest avoiding the Dixon two-piece ABS, cylindrical bore, plastic flute, which sells in the neighborhood of fifty dollars US. It will not give you any indication regarding whether you want to pursue this instrument. The embouchure hole is inferior to virtually anything, and the finger holes are large and widely spaced. Dixon may make other worthy products, but I was sorely disappointed in the above.
edited for clarity
[ This Message was edited by: U2 on 2003-02-26 17:37 ]
oooh! ooooh! (jumping up and down) I volunteer to go play/select a Sweetheart for ya! Haven’t been to Ralphs place in a couple of months and I really had a great time visiting!
Oh yeah, don’t get the cheap Dixon get the good one (Conical bore tooled from a solid piece of polymer about $189)
M&E also makes a terrific Rudall Rose style in polymer.
The polymer flutes seem to hold their value very well so you could learn to toot and then upgrade to a wooden flute when you’re ready. Chances are though, you’ll keep the polymer anyway.
Is there a web site for dixon’s ? and what exactly is a “polymer fulte” and any more suggestions about buying from a seller that is practically unknow? it is a rose wood fulte? and am i just better off going with a company such as seery?
Ps : The one from the unknown seller in rosewood is off of e-bay and i saw a post farther down that the only time u see both black wood and rose wood is on e-bay and its normally “one of the pakastanie horrors” does that mean general people have had bad luck on the e-bay flutes? also if you could check out the site and let me no what you think about buying one of these flutes for irish playing (im clueless) i believe it was earthsounds.com
First off, buying from an unknown buyer a flute that is simply listed as rosewood is very risky. There is a high probability that it is a Pakistani made poor quality instrument. The seller should be able to name the maker unless we’re talking about an antique. There’s my $.02 on that issue.
As for polymer, we’re talking about Delrin here for Seery and Dixon. For M&E, it’s some special PVC material. These are not cheap, plastic flutes, but machined high quality non-wooden flutes that are made in the same manner as wooden flutes. The polymers are in solid blocks, and they use a lathe to make the flutes just like they would if it was made of blackwood.
Wooden flutes are great (do not take this as a flame against wooden flutes…I really like my wooden fife), but I like some of the advantages of polymer. Great sound (I personally can’t tell a recording of a Seery, Dixon or M&E from a wooden flute when the player is experienced), basically indestructable with no fear of cracks developing, no need to break it in slowly, you can play outdoors in 5 below and not worry about it, and you can play for short bursts of time without needing to clean & oil it. For me, with a harsh climate and a four year old who interrupts frequently, polymer is the best choice. YMMV.
Wooden flutes are great (do not take this as a flame against wooden flutes…I really like my wooden fife), but I like some of the advantages of polymer. Great sound (I personally can’t tell a recording of a Seery, Dixon or M&E from a wooden flute when the player is experienced), basically indestructable with no fear of cracks developing, no need to break it in slowly, you can play outdoors in 5 below and not worry about it, and you can play for short bursts of time without needing to clean & oil it. For me, with a harsh climate and a four year old who interrupts frequently, polymer is the best choice. YMMV. >
Well, what makes a great flute is a combination of the material used and what the maker puts into it; almost across the board, the best makers work in wood. That said, a few of the polymers are well-made flutes and can be made to sound respectably like decent wooden one. While I’d argue that they in any way match a good wooden flute, the Grinter originally mentioned, an Olwell, Hamilton, etc., there are definite advantages over them in terms of durability and cost and, since this original question was from a beginner wanting to spend less for a starter flute, I think your take on polymers is a sound one.
I’ll in no way disagree with you, except (and you probably guessed an “except” was coming… ) to say that from what I’ve read in various places the makers of the conical polymer flutes have not been making flutes nearly as long as Olwell, Hamilton, Grinter, etc…(although I could be wrong about Desi Seery). Also, all the “big three” polymer flute makers also make wooden flutes. Perhaps time will improve their flutes to the point they are as highly regarded as the finest wooden flutes.
I can’t recall whose flute site had a nice interview with Matt Molloy, and in it he talks about what great flutes Patrick Olwell makes now but how Olwell had to work up to the level of instrument he currently makes. So even Mr. Olwell wasn’t deemed perfect from the start!
On 2003-02-28 17:13, Reel whistler wrote:
also if you could check out the site and let me no what you think about buying one of these flutes for irish playing (im clueless) i believe it was earthsounds.com
That site sells Native American flutes. Not suited to Iirsh playing. These are end blown, with the wood block set up sort of like a whistle.
I’ll in no way disagree with you, except (and you probably guessed an “except” was coming… > > ) to say that from what I’ve read in various places the makers of the conical polymer flutes have not been making flutes nearly as long as Olwell, Hamilton, Grinter, etc…(although I could be wrong about Desi Seery). Also, all the “big three” polymer flute makers also make wooden flutes. Perhaps time will improve their flutes to the point they are as highly regarded as the finest wooden flutes.
I can’t recall whose flute site had a nice interview with Matt Molloy, and in it he talks about what great flutes Patrick Olwell makes now but how Olwell had to work up to the level of instrument he currently makes. So even Mr. Olwell wasn’t deemed perfect from the start!
Eric
Well, that’s true, and I wouldn’t necessarily call Olwells perfect – no flute is, for everyone. On the other hand, I still don’t feel that Delrin shares many of the qualities of a good hard wood, from obvious things, like weight and texture, to the less tangible mysteries of wood, and the varieties between the different woods. I also think that the best makers enjoy working wood more than the polymer, which means that more fine flutemakers will stick to working it than plastic.
As for how long most of these makers have been at it, there are excellent newer makers in wood about, in no particular order and excluding several – Byrne, Noy, Healy, Copley – and so whether a flute made by Cronally, Dixon or Seery is up to the same level, while debatable to be sure, the argument has little to do with the relative newness of the maker.
Again, I think there are real advantages to the better polymers, and in some awful future view of our planet, we or our children may all have to get used to artificial materials. I have yet, though, to hear of any great flute maker switching over to Delrin as a preferred material, or of any fluteplayer trading up to a Delrin flutes from a decent wooden one.
But, you’re right – maybe someday there will be a polymer flute that outshines or at least equals the very best in wood; there may even be an as-now uninvented polymer yet to be used. But ultimately it may be more a matter of our ears and sensibilites changing than a matter of the material gaining or equalling hardwood superiority.
Still agree with you though; Reelplayer may be best suited for a polymer at this stage – the polymers I’ve played still (usually) beat a cheap wooden flute in the same price range.
Well, Michael Cronnolly isn’t a young man, and he is reputed to have made his first flute from the spoke of a wagon wheel when he was young, so he’s been doing it awhile.
His Rudall and Rose model is very, very close to the Hamilton. Played back to back, if you couldn’t see the flutist and didn’t know which was which, I think you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference.
It’s a keeper and still gets frequent play. When a flute plays like that, I don’t care if it is made of wood, plastic, or mummified mammoth droppings: it’s a keeper.
The Seery is also a flute I still play a lot. The Hamilton and M&E R&R both have a big, ringing tone with a metallic shine–the Seery has more of a throaty growl. It’s a keeper too–there are times I want that particular sound. Not that the Hammy can’t growl, but if you want the growl and you want it loud but without any metallic ring to the sound, the Seery is the way to go.
Considering the relative rarity and fragility of blackwood, and the value of the best flutes made from it, I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want a fine polymer flute–and these are some really fine plastic flutes we are discussing here–as a backup instrument, if nothing else, or to play when the wooden one is being oiled or repadded. Shoot, if nothing else, stick it in the trunk of your car and you’ll always have a flute with you and you can always play rather or not you knew you’d have the opportunity.
Also, I personally find it valuable to have more than one flute available and I think it a good way to develop and maintain a very flexible embouchure.
Gordon - I think we’re pretty much on the same page. I read here on this board that Patrick Olwell hated working on JessieK’s delrin flute immensely. Also, I’ve read a metal lathe does better with delrin than a wood lathe, so there is the extra expense involved if you want to go down the polymer road and make it easier on yourself. Personally, if I had the talent and material to make a nice conical bore flute, I’d prefer wood. There’s nothing like working wood - the feel, the smell, and the beauty. In fact, in my feeble cylindrical attempts (PVC, CPVC, bamboo) at flute building, I much prefer bamboo over plastics to work with, and natural materials really do just look nicer. But despite all the above, I say give the polymer crafters another 10 years and we can see where they’re at. From what James has said, the difference between the M&E and the M&E Rudall and Rose model is significant, and from his clips I can tell a serious improvement…
Reel whistler - If you do want wood, Tyghress made a nice offer to go try out one of Ralph Sweet’s flutes for you. JessieK, much more of a Sweet expert than I am, has said she has several Sweet flutes she ranks up there with the very best, but others have not been quite as good. Also, you may have a Ralph Sweet retailer somewhere near you where you could go try several of his flutes. Just another option.
Edit here - James, interesting info on Michael Cronnely. I really know nothing about him, but I agree about the M&E R&R. I also agree having more than one flute can be valuable. I often find after playing my fife my embouchure is better and I play better on my Dixon - must be the increased focus necessary for the fife. I would be greately interested to see you playing a flute made of mammoth dropings BTW…
[ This Message was edited by: Jayhawk on 2003-03-01 10:47 ]
If you are serious about it, you will need a decent flute. There is no two ways about it. There is nothing worse than trying to learn on a bad, or unusual, or gimmicky instrument and there are plenty of them out there. Since you asked about Seery, yes go for it. You will be able to learn, perform, compete with the best of them on his instrument.
M&E and Sweetheart are also worth looking into for their lower prices.
Good luck - rama
[ This Message was edited by: rama on 2003-03-01 11:11 ]
