A Call For Tolerance

Whistle
1

My son rcvd this today and wanted to share it with me. I thought it worth posting.

# # # # # # # # #

I am a muslim and I live in the US. I was born and raised in Canada with
Indian background. I feel I need to help clear up what is true and what
is not true with regards to Islam.

Islam is a religion and a person practicing Islam is a muslim. There are
five basics pillars of islam that any muslim should follow. All the
guidance of what muslims should do is in the holy book called the Qu’ran
or “Koran”.

Unfortunately, it seems that Bin Laden and others have taken religion as
a vehicle to project their political hatred and motives. What he is
doing, has nothing to do with Islam at all. Islam teaches people to be
loving, peace giving, god fearing people. It teaches us to live with
diversity, other religions, and humility. All the things that bin laden
has said in the interviews and has done in the past are not words from
the qu’ran but his words. And unfortunately the media and lack of real
knowledge has blurred what is true and what is not.

The statement by binladen that non-muslims cannot live in a muslim
country is false - 100% false. India was ruled by muslims for 900 years,
christians, muslims and hindus lived happily together. Same in
palestine, before the partition, arab jews and arab muslims lived
together for hundreds of years in peace. The main reasons for hatred and
fighting the past 50 years was due more to political landscape than
religion. Unfortunately, religion is a powerful tool that gets people
motivated and people in power have used it as the lauch pad for
fighting.

Another item that binladen keeps talking about is Jihad or holy war.
There is discussion of Jihad in the Qu’ran and when and why it is
appropriate. It is never an offensive tactic. Jihad is only permitted
when a muslim is being oppressed to practice their religion. Only real
examples where Jihad may have been appropriate in recent years would be
the Bosnian war where Bosnian muslims were being executed strictly based
on their religion. But by no means can a muslim country attack another
country (muslim or not) as an act of Jihad. That is incorrect. The
basics of islam are similar to christianity.

Believe in one god. In arabic the word god is Allah. The god is the same
between all three religions. jews, muslims and christians pray to the
same god. That is very important to understand. But a true muslim is
humble, not greedy, not arrogant and never shows jealousy. Tolerance,
helping neighbours of any race, creed, or religion is the first thing.
One of the five pillars of islam is to give to the poor. It’s required,
not a choice. As any religion or race, there are a small group of
radicals that take any religion and bend it for their convenience. This
seems to be the case with bin laden, saddam hussein, and others who have
killed humans for their gain.

None of these people will go to heaven as they believe they will. Jihad
is not valid here nor does is it say to kill innocent children, parents,
and siblings. Jihad only allows fighting among soliders, not civilians.
Unfortunately these people are misled and doing very evil things that
they will be punished for it.

I’ll stop rambling here..I hope this helps you guys get a better
understand of what is going on. Just remember, Arab is a race..there are
Arab Christians, Arab Jews and Arab muslims. At the moment radical arab
muslims are causing trouble and doing things that are absolutely not
tolerated in Islam at all. I hope these groups are stopped and removed.

I was in NYC yesterday and I was there when it happened. I saw the
second plane slam into the WTC 2. It was an experience I wish I had not
witnessed. But we need to grow strong and not stereotype.

best regards,
a muslim in america.

2

Thanks for the letter Gm. It’s true, we need to remember that it is not the entire race, religion, or country that is responsible for the abhorrent actions of a powerful few. I found this letter on the Afghan’s Women’s Mission page, http://afghanwomensmission.org :

For Immediate Release

Thursday, September 13th, 2001

CONTACT:
info@afghanwomensmission.org

Press Release

The Afghan Women’s Mission strongly denounces the acts of cruel violence committed on September the 11th, 2001, resulting in the loss of thousands of American lives. We join the country and world in grieving for those who were killed in New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania.

However, we strongly urge the US Government and it’s allies to not carry out military attacks on Afghanistan in retaliation for these violent acts. Afghanistan is a country devastated by more than two decades of war, starting from the late 1970s when fundamentalists called the Mujahadeen, armed and trained by the US government and other countries, fought the Soviet occupation of their country. After the Soviet withdrawal in the early 1990s, in-fighting between the various Mujahadeen groups resulted in the destruction of most of the infrastructure in cities such as the capital Kabul. When the fundamentalist Taliban took over most of Afghanistan in 1996, the situation only worsened for Afghans. As we all know, the Taliban are the most repressive government in the world today, and do not represent the Afghan people.

Afghans have been suffering the results of extreme war, poverty, disease, hunger, lack of education, health care and shelter for too long. Afghans comprise the second largest refugee group in the world today. In addition, there are millions of internally displaced Afghans who are living on the edge of survival throughout the country. To attack Afghanistan now would be to attack a weak and defenseless people who have no control over those that rule them with violence and terror. While we insist that those responsible should be identified and tried in a court of law, we urge the United States government to not answer violence with violence.

The Afghan Women’s Mission also urges our fellow Americans to remember the values of freedom and respect for diversity that make this country great. We need to remind each other of the reactionary backlash towards Americans of Japanese descent who were unfairly targeted in 1941 after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. In the wake of the tragedy on September 11th, let us treat each other with respect and dignity, regardless of national origin or religion.

3

Amen to both of the above.
I can’t forget the Gulf War, when I was in college and saw fellow students being threatened and harassed. It was frightening.

Hate is what caused this tragedy. We can’t meet hate with hate. If we harass innocent people now, it will be proof that we’ve learned nothing.



[ This Message was edited by: LittleMy on 2001-09-14 20:30 ]

4

I’m afraid that majority sentiment in the US, and a vast majority at that, will allow for no solution that does not include a military attack on the taliban faction in Afghanistan. These fanatics, who are even harder on their own people than were the Soviets, hide and support the murderer whose killers committed this horror. To turn the other cheek would only prove their misapprehension that the US is weak and that our people can be attacked and killed with impunity. Today they’re even threatening Pakistan, probably the closest thing they have left to a friend among the world’s nations.

On the other hand, I have to ask how the Afghani people would be hurt if we can find a way to surgically remove these murderous fanatics. Would the people not be better off with them gone or so severely weakend that the other factions could stage a resurgence and complete their expulsion.

Need I remind anyone that foreigners are on trial there for the ‘crime’ of not being Islamic fundamentalists? Or that some of their own people could well face a death penalty for not being the right kind of Muslims. As with the Butcher of Baghdad, we don’t have to be evil to recognize it when it stinks up the air around us.

I am not advocating indiscriminate bombing of innocents, though I would point out that that is what their pet terrorist did here. But Tuesday earned us the right to attack evil on our terms and our timetable. If the Taliban does not want to be included in that retribution, expulsion of bin Laden and his savages would be a good first indication of sincerity.

5

Thanks, y’all. What amazes me is some of these idiots can’t tell a sikh from a Muslim! I got a wonderful e-mail from a friend in Egypt, a Suni Muslim, and deep sixed it I was crying so hard because it was so loving! Keep whistling!

6

Terrorism is the use of violence against
innocent people to accomplish a political purpose. By this definition the British/American firebombing of Dresden was terrorism–we hoped to terrorize civilians into begging the German government to surrender.

Whatever else they may have been, the
attacks on Tues were terrorism, I believe.
They were largely a response to continuing
American military and financial support
for Israel. The terrorists believe that
Israel is waging war on the Palestinian
people, has been doing so since its inception, and that you and I are bankrolling
the project. (I am not endorsing this view.) Part of the message to American
taxpayers was that from now on the consequences of American foreign policy in the middle east will happen in America too.
The attacks may well stiffen American support
for Israel initially–the long term
effects remain to be seen, especially
if the perpetrators can strike again. Obviously I am not trying to excuse these horrible acts–nothing could do that–but to explain them.

If this is right, the attacks flowed
principally from a political motive, not
a religious one (which is consistent with
the perpetrators being ardently religious).
The terrorists weren’t attacking
America because ‘it is a beacon of freedom
and opportunity in the world,’ anymore than
they did it because some book tells them to. They aren’t insane, any more than was Timothy McVeigh, and their problem isn’t with our lifestyle. The rhetoric of the last few
days has been consoling and brought Americans
together, but it paints the terrorist’s motives in such broad platitudes that I fear it can also unintentionally expose innocent Americans to hatred. I hope we will start looking beyond the rhetoric before too long.
If we are to prevent these atrocities, I
believe we had better.

7

No Jim,

You are wrong. I speak now from my own experience - I lived in the middle east for a period of time. My family and I narrowly avoided death in terrorist attacks, not once but twice while living in Israel. I’ve experienced the horror, attitudes, politics, and motivations of that region up close, and far too personal.

Bin Laden is not Palestinian. To my knowlegde there has never been a strong connection between Bin Laden’s group and Arafat, or the PLO. Their interests have generally appeared to be separate. Bin Laden might occasionally mention our support of Israel as one of our “evils”, but I am unaware of him ever proclaiming that one of his main missions is to secure more land for the Palestinian nation.

So, if one of Bin Laden’s reasons for wanting to attack us has to do with our support of Israel, then that leaves religion, and/or hatred and fear of our way of life as his prime motivations. (He could of course be insane as well, but I’m not qulaified to make that diagnosis).

Jim, if you can provide significant facts to support your theory, I’d love to see them. Until then, I see no way your hypothesis can be correct.

Loren

8

Thank you GrannyMouse for the forward.

It should be realized that not only is Islam a varied form of religeon often interpreted differently by the practictioners reading the book, but so is Christianity and Judaism. Judaism ranges from the gentle believers in Jehovah and the Torah to the militant insistance of the “land of milk and honey” as a God given right. Christianity, now often associciated with the “born again Christians” who feel that if you believe in Christ you can lie, cheat and steal; and still be saved - yet is the religeon of the Roman Catholic (the anti-Christ to some), the Episcopalian (the one I was brought up in) and the Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist and a few others. The Muslim varies also, from the believer in the Koran - with it’s strictures as to the welcoming of guests and tolerance of all - to the new fundamentalists who deny all rights but their own.

I shan’t get into the other major religeons, Bhuddist, animist, etc. Enough to show the variation within the main three.

A Christian (Ian Paisley) calls the Pope the Anti-Christ! A Hassidic sect refuses to support Israel as it won’t exist until their Messiah comes, and he ain’t here yet. A Muslim wants to kill all the “people of the book”, despite Muhammad’s acceptance of them as believers in earlier prophets.

Any religeon can be perverted, and none should be denigrated because a small sect takes a part of it and uses it for their purposes.

Too long, I go on too long, but being me I’ll continue. I ask dispensation that it is not to do with whistles, special circumstance.

I am an atheist, I wish I weren’t as it would make the aging process easier. I respect the faith of all, and wish I had it. Each of the “books”, be it Torah, Bible or Koran, expresses a tolerance for the infidel if we infidels live a life of virtue.

These radical “Muslims” have nothing to do with the religeon that is Islam. A religeon that tolerated, and helped, the other two during the Arabic ascendency around 1000 AD.

I hope I’ve offended no one, but if I’ve offended anyone I’m quite happy, as if this is offensive then your mind is too narrow.

Radicals are radicals, and usually have no concern other than their own agenda. Note that these “Muslims” covered the “painted lady” in their apartment, but also spent one of their last nights in a strip club drinking. These were the kids of Columbine looking for glory, not real Muslims looking to their God.

A final comment, I don’t know the Koran as I haven’t read it - but from my days of studying Near Eastern History in the fifties at Princeton I do remember that one of the prime tenets was the inviolability of a guest. A natural expectation of law when looking at the time and place. A desert environment where the innocent traveler might be in need of succor. Nothing in what is suggested about Bin Laden, or his supporters, resembles anything I know as a layman of the Koran, and in fact denies all of it.

Best, Jon

9

Dear Loren,

Thanks for your response, which
clears up a mistaken impression I’m
afraid my message gave. Also, let me
say that I’m very interested that you lived
in Israel and that you experienced personally
some of what most Americans have just begun
to know for themselves.

Absolutely right. Bin Laden (who almost
certainly masterminded and funded these
outrages) is not Palestinian, but Saudi.
Right, there has never been a
connection–to our knowledge–between
Bin Laden and the PLO or Arafat. The attack
didn’t come from the Palestinians. Thank
you for making that clear, especially as I didn’t.

Personally I’ve traveled in Iran,
Aghanistan, and Pakistan. I’ve known
plenty of non-Palestinian Arabs–Egyptians,
Jordanians, as well as a number of
Palestinians, too. I’ve been watching the
middle east for over 50 years. My sense of
the thing is that Israel, it’s treatment
of the Palestinians, and America’s alliance
with Israel, are the major irritant. That is,
people in the middle east (whether or not
they are Palestinians) who are deeply angry
with the USA feel that way largely because
of what they believe happened and continues
to happen in Israel/Palestine. Many non-
Palestinians take what happens to the
Palestinians personally, and see Israel
as an affront to all Arabs or all Muslims.
The ‘Palestinian problem’ has for decades
been the flashpoint that keeps anger going,
a significant part of the fury that helps
fuel Islamic fundamentalism (as the more
moderate governments, like Egypt, have
abandoned the war on Israel).

Bin Laden has other concerns, as you say–he was outraged by the presence of American troops on Saudi soil during the Gulf War. But I’m sure he takes the Palestinian problem personally. This is the place in the middle east where nearly every day Arabs are being assasinated from American Apache helicopters, where Israeli soldiers are shooting Arab children with American bullets fired by American guns, where the present prime minister has been condemned by his own goverment for being implicated in the murder of thousands of Arab refugees in the early 80s (Ariel Sharon is about to be tried for war crimes by Belgium). Bin Laden believes that the Palestinians were driven from their land by terrorism, and that behind it all, bankrolling it, arming it, politically defending it, is the USA. It would be hard
to overestimate the anger of people who
perceive things this way and take it
personally.

Emphatically I am not saying that what
these people believe is true, or that
it could justify terrorism if it were true. And I think you are right that the Palestinian issue doesn’t exhaust Bin Laden’s
list of supposed grievances with the USA.
But I think it’s reasonable to believe
that a principal message the terrorist attacks were meant to send each of us
was this: ‘You will no longer support Israel with impunity.’

10

I hope you won’t mind me sharing a poem with you:


Human beings suffer,
they torture one another,
they get hurt and get hard.
No poem or play or song
can fully right a wrong
inflicted and endured.


The innocent in gaols
beat on their bars together.
A hunger-striker’s father
stands in the graveyard dumb.
The police widow in veils
faints at the funeral home


History says, Don’t hope
on this side of the grave.
But then, once in a lifetime
the longed for tidal wave
of justice can rise up,
and hope and history rhyme.


So hope for a great sea-change
on the far side of revenge.
Believe that a further shore
is reachable from here.
Believe in miracles
and cures and healing wells.


Call the miracle self-healing:
The utter self-revealing
double-take of feeling.
if there’s fire on the mountain
or lightning and storm
and a god speaks from the sky.


That means someone is hearing
the outcry and the birth-cry
of new life at its term.


Seamus Heaney,
The Cure at Troy

And a link:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/14/afghanistan/print.html

11

I think the USA is being manipulated by terrorist groups into launching massive strikes against civilians in the middle east. This is an old terrorist tactic, used with great success against the americans in vietnam, and attacks against afghanistan might only have the effect of uniting the whole moslem world against the west, just as civilian casualties in the vietnam war united the world against the american war effort there.

A massive retaliation by the Americans might be just what Bin Laden is hoping for.
These attacks on america were dreadful things, but attacks against the middle east are likely to make things a whole lot worse. The world trade centre will be just a beginning.

Don’t let someone else lead you into a war. As the greatest of all generals, Genghis khan once said (and he should know!) there is only one rule in war. don’t let the enemy make the rules.

12

I really appreciate this board. For comfort and knowledge. The combined intelligence is astounding. We may not all agree but the disscussion is civil and informative. Thanks so much.

When the towers came down I wanted revenge. Now I just want an end to terrorism of all kinds. From Israel to Ireland. Where ever. What ever the best course of action.

I’m so glad I’m not the president. The weight of his coming decissions must be oppressive. Maybe I’m naive but I’m willing to support our goverment and trust the right choices will be made.

Mary

13

I agree with you Mary. And I think there is something very therapeutic for all of us to express our opinions at this horrific time.

Maybe I am still in a state of shock as I don’t understand why I’m not feeling anger or rage…just an overwhelming despair.
I wake in the night and wonder how many people might still be alive deep below the surface or think about the people on those planes in the last minutes of their lives…and I pray..that these people have not died in vain..and what saddens me almost as much…if you are an atheist…whatis left? You are in my prayers. Betty

14

Betty writes:

“If you are an atheist, what is left”


An end to the suffering, perhaps?

15

I’m also glad I’m not the president.
And I support our government, but I confess
I don’t necessarily trust it to make
the right decisions. I hope we will all get
involved. If ever there was a time for
us to get involved in our democracy, I think this is it. We’re not politicians, we
don’t get money from interest groups,
we don’t have to worry about reelection or
offending voters or our image, and, finally, it’s hardly impossible that we have more good sense than the people we elect. I think America will be safer when more Americans make it their business to learn more about
the world beyond our shores, and make their
voices heard.

16

Jim,

I agree that much of what you have written is true (going back to the discussion of bin laden’s motivations), but only in a very general sense. Yes, there is much anger towards the U.S. due to our support of Israel. However, I have found that while many non-Israelis initially claim to dislike or hate us due to our support of Israel, once you live with them for awhile (and I have, both here and in the middle east), you come to learn that it’s more often a matter of resentment for our prosperity and the freedoms we enjoy (speech, religion, etc.) that is really the basis of the animosity.

Heck, most peoples of the middle east hate many of their neighbors
in other countries as much or more than they hate us. Even if Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, they’d all be fighting with the Palestinians for the same land. You think if Isreal weren’t around that the Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Saudis, Jordanians, Iraqis and Iranians would all be getting along?
Hell no, and they’d still find some way to blame a lot of the trouble on the U.S. “Influence” - our culture being allowed to seep into places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Hell, if even one houshold in the wrong fundamentalist neighborhood get’s a satellite feed of an episode of Gilligan’s Island by mistake, that’s enough for some wacko to proclaim a Jihad on us - forget about Palestine.

Besides, people in the middle east are smart enough to realize that if we didn’t sell the Isrealis weapons, someone else would. They know who is actually pulling the trigger - they are looking them right in the eye at the moment of truth.

They also realize that it is the U.S. who has exerted the most pressure on Israel to give up land in order to make peace. Nothing is more precious to the people on both sides than land, apparently not even lives.

So yes, there is hate in the middle east directed towards us because we support Israel. But I say this generalization only appies to bin laden in a superficial way. Look at most of the people in his group, they are from everywhere but Palestine for the most part.

Bin laden is peddling a different brand of terrorism based on hatred of a particular way of life, ours. He sells this idea to the weak minded who already hate us because he simply wants to become powerful himself. This is his real reason for attacking the U.S., the more and bigger the “victories” he can rack up, the beter his recruiting.

Eventually, if he isn’t stopped, he will cease to be a mere terrorist, he will become a powerful leader with a real army that will attempt to take over one country or another in the middle east - Another Saddam Hussien, Yasser Arafat, Ayatolla Homeini etc. This is Bin Laden’s real motivation, not a terribly original strategy, but effective none the less.

So I say to you Jim, that while there are terrorist groups that would like to attack us for exactly the reasons you stated, Bin Laden isn’t one of them. He isn’t terribly concerned with the fact that we support Isreal. We are the biggest baddest representation of unholy western culture in the world, and he wants to take us on so that he can make himself more powerful and more righteous. Any city kid from a tough neighborhood knows - If you want to become more powerful in the school yard, you take on the biggest, baddest kid in school. You do it right in front of everyone, and you put up a hell of a fight. Then, even if you lose, your stature grows, more so if you battle the top dog more than once. That’s his plan, and those are his reasons.

Loren





[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-09-16 21:25 ]

17

Jinkies! You mean the motivation is not because we are a “beacon of freedom” as George W. proclaimed? You mean that instead our foreign policies might have P.O.ed someone? Shucks, now I feel so disillusioned… (…but wait a minute. If we still are not positive who did it, how does Goerge W. know what the motivation is? Hmmmm…)


(Tongue planted firmly in cheek)
Regards,
Feadan

[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2001-09-17 00:42 ]

18

Loren, You agree with me, I with you. The difference is emphasis. I found these stats on the website of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise. Israel has received more direct aid from the USA since WWII then any other country. Since 74 Israel has received $90 billion in US
assistance. Starting in 87 it received
annually 1.2 billion in economic
aid and 1.8 billion annually in
military assistance. In 2000 military
aid increased to 1.92 billion dollars
a year. No surprise that hatred of Israel is
directed at us.

I think we should support Israel, personally. But consider the leverage we have over these people (I believe we give considerable aid to Palestinians too). Oddly the leverage usually works the other way, because support for Israel in the USA is so strong that it is very dangerous politically for a president to stand up to Israel. The exception was Bush senior, who refused to
sign loan guarantees for Yitzak Shamir, after which Shamir was voted from office.
Over the last months, as violence escalated and other nations insisted
that the USA couldn’t afford to let things deteriorate further, I was amazed
that we did so little–mortified, in fact,
as I had voted for these people. We have what it takes to lead this part of the world to peace, I’m convinced, except perhaps the political courage. I don’t see how the world can afford an American government that will not lead positively in the middle east.

Now back to whistles.

19

Yeah, I agree, let’s get back to the music.

Loren