I’m relatively new to the flute world and am anguishing between 6 and 8 keys. Want to play Irish music but have the option of playing other music. I guess it comes down to the need for C and C Sharp. Can anyone help?
[ This Message was edited by: mccormackjohn on 2001-11-30 05:04 ]
Ah, yes, the age-old question.
Actually, this one’s been debated all the way back to before 1800. And, funny enough, when the keys were added to the foot (the two C keys of course) that started the confusion between: is the flute in D or in C?
(Then, of course, there at one time were two keys at the foot…one for Eb and one for D#…before the two C keys were added!!)
Anyway, as you noted, it’s all a matter of preference and need. Charles Nicholson, the great flute player of the early 1800s, actually espoused a 7-key flute (he didn’t see any need for the long-F key). There are some neat cross-fingerings in the middle register that the lower keys are quite good for.
I prefer 8-key mostly because of the balance of the instrument. I think the lower keys offer good counter weight to the weight in the tuning slides (of course, a Patent Head Rudall probably should have another 10 lbs of weight at the foot!). While I don’t use the foot keys often (I roll them away toward the audience while I’m playing…keeps them out of my way while playing and the people listening all say “cool, look at the flute!” 
) at least they’re there when I do want them…which isn’t very often.
Also, there’s the issue of finger thickness. Some makers, and certainly a good deal of the old flutes, are difficult to place ones finger at RH3 without hitting either the Eb key or the short-F key as the space is pretty constricting. I have thicker fingers, so it’s an issue for me. It forces you to put your fingers on an angle (that’s how they espoused the position of the hand way back whenever) and I prefer straight on for that hand.
Of course, if you get the two keys at the foot, the question is: do I want pewter plugs or pads? That’s an entirely different discussion.
\
David Migoya
Fyfer Restorations
http://www.fyfer-restorations.com
“Bringing Yesterday’s Flutes to Today’s Players”
[ This Message was edited by: David Migoya on 2001-11-30 09:43 ]
[ This Message was edited by: David Migoya on 2001-11-30 09:45 ]
I’m with David on this one. On the 8-key Metzler that I bought from him, I’ve temporarily (and very carefully) removed the low C and C# keys since I do use the E-flat key, but found that the overhang of the other two key touches really got in the way. I can put them back on in 30 seconds if I need them for a gig. I’m just the opposite about the weight, I like the lighter foot joint. I’m having the same problem with avoiding the short-F on RH3, even lightly brushing the key or mount causes the key to leak and kills the bottom D. Still, its worth it having the keys when you need them. I’ll soon have both a keyed and keyless, so that’s the best of both worlds.
Cheers,
Michael
[ This Message was edited by: eskin on 2001-11-30 11:13 ]
Occasionally you’ll find a tune that goes down to C, particularly for tunes in A min, C, or F (very rare). More often, you’ll find tunes which do not use a C or C#, but go down from a low D to a B or A. Of course, the 7/8th keys do you no good for that situation.
Sure there are plenty of opportunities for using the C keys…
All these goodies? Don’t you want C keys afterall now?
Greg:
You SERIOUSLY need to find other Celtic/Irish musicians out there in the Far East! If you play one Manilow note on that Rudall, I want it back!
Hmm, say what you like about Manilow, but he does use all of the notes. So I guess that rules out playing that flute at all. 
[ This Message was edited by: jomac on 2001-12-03 14:29 ]
[ This Message was edited by: jomac on 2001-12-03 14:30 ]
This is a very well framed topic starter post.
The year Barry Manilow won the best pop song for
‘I Write The Songs,’ the runner up was Gordon Lightfoot’s
‘The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.’
Slowly I am learning to forgive.
I’ve heard from one strong player and teacher in
Ireland that he takes off the bottom two keys.
He plays ITM mostly. He said Kevin Crawford did
this with his 8-key, too.
You could save a few hundred$ by taping a few quarters to the footjoint of a 6 key..
No problem!
You’d like to play ITM, yet also could care to play “other” music, assuming such other music could be of twelve tone, Western scale. No problem, get a Boehm flute, and with just one flute you could do it all.
Yes, you could risk the ire of those on this board, but that’s not what you asked about, eh?
FWIW, last night in the session I used the low C# repeatedly in one tune only - Esther’s reel. I could have left it out, or subsituted the next octave c# and that would have worked too.
But, I do like the balance of 8-key flutes, and I think you get more overtones / better hard low D etc.
If money was an issue, I would get a 6-key, probably with a short foot. The long foot makes the flute soooo long - and it’s hard finding space around a crowed table!
But otherwise, I would (and have) get the long foot with both long notes - and use them!
Can’t there be a ‘resurrection’ icon on threads like these.
Perhaps something like this
apprears with the topic?
I thought, “hey, gcollins is back, cool” until I noticed the thread was started in 2001!!!
thank you
Really? The last time I saw Kevin he was playing his 8-key Grinter and very happily using the low C and C# keys. It may well be that he took the bottom keys off an 8-key flute he was playing before he got the Grinter, but if he did I’m sure it would have been because they weren’t working. If you have an 8-key flute where the bottom keys won’t seal at all and you therefore can’t use them, or if it’s a big hassle to get them to seal and you just don’t want to deal with it, then it makes perfect sense to remove them. But if those keys work, no flute player in his right mind would remove them. If those keys work on your 8-key flute, you start looking for tunes where you can use them.
I pretty much agree with John Kerr here. How does Barry Banal-oh come into this, though? Has he turned his nose into a flute now? If so, it’s long enough to have the full set of foot keys!
P.S. Why the thread archaeology, Talasiga?
I ain’t settling for any less than 14 keys. I like the number.
Right, that’s what I heard, John. Just reporting,
not saying he’s right (though I expect he’s right about
himself). As I recall the source was David Levine.
Check Eskin’s post above, for another reason why someone
might remove the bottom keys.
Several have reported on another thread that the low D
is perhaps slightly veiled on an 8 key–though this
doesn’t make a prohibitive difference and can be
compensated for. Also I do think
they can add a bit to the flute’s weight–that’s my
impression from the Grinter, anyhow. There are
people for whom that might matter. Such reasons might
lead somebody with an 8-keyed flute who finds
s/he really isn’t much using them to remove the
keys.
I went to the first page of the sticky on flute videos, and where I could see the flute well enough, Seamus Egan, Matt Molloy, Kevin Crawford, and Peter Horan all had their foot joint rotated to get the foot keys out of the way. I interpret this to mean that the foot joint keys aren’t used routinely, but are available if desired.
Hugh
A lot of players will rotate their foot joint to get the keys out of the way if they’re playing a tune where they won’t be needing them, and then rotate the keys back in whenever they know they’ll be needing them. This is true of players using both six-key and eight-key flutes, and has nothing to do with the topic of keys possibly veiling the sound of the flute. Also, some players of eight-key flutes whose keys aren’t functional will rotate the foot joint to get the keys out of the way rather than remove the keys.
There are a good few D Dorian/ D minor / D Mix tunes where the low C key comes in handy. To name some, there’s Mother’s Delight, The Broken Pledge, The Graf Spee, The Porthole of the Kelp, Tuttle’s, that Reavy tune Leddy from Cavan, Jenny’s Welcome to Charlie, Jenny Picking Cockles, etc, etc.
Hmmm, I bet if Jenny played flute she’d have an eight-key.