3D printed flutes - are we there yet?

Irish Flute
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I think it’s fair to say we are approaching or perhaps even passing through a period of significant disruption. Such periods of disruption are inevitable in all fields as new technologies challenge and ultimately replace old.

And such disruptions usually progress much more quickly than people expect. How many years did it take for the motor car to replace the horse for example. Or the digital camera replace film? Not many, once the transition got underway.

The innovation I am focussing on is 3D printing. I see it bobbing up in all kinds of fields. My son has just acquired such a printer and is enjoying exploring its possibilities. And making massive strides.

And so cheap. The machine a few hundred dollars. The filament to feed it almost negligible. At least when compared to the cost of say my flute making workshop and the timber and metals I use.

I have a question for those who have experienced 3D printed flutes. Where do you think we are at?

If you scored the best traditionally-made Irish flute you have experienced as 100%, what score would you give the best 3D printed flute you have experienced?

And why? If there are deficiencies, or indeed improvements, are they in performance terms, appearance, cost, reliability, other, or a mix? Are some positives, some negatives?

My reason for asking is a heads-up to current flute makers. Making Irish flutes “the old way” is not easy work. Trust me, I’ve been doing it for 50 years, so I know this. It has been the most challenging work I’ve ever undertaken.

I am aware that there are now makers employing 3D printing, indeed I’m working with a couple to help them get the best out of their designs.

I should add, I’m not planning to take up the technology myself. At age 77, I think I can plead the “you can’t teach an old dog to learn new tricks” defence! I’m happy to be an observer on this journey.

My guess is that we are not quite there yet, but that good progress is being made. But perhaps I’m too far out of the picture to know? Hence this enquiry.

And if we were to indulge in some crystal ball gazing, which sector of our current makers has to be the most concerned?

Our most established makers, because their instruments are so much more expensive?

Our newest makers, as they perhaps haven’t yet established themselves?

The cheapest makers, eg the dreaded Pakistani flute makers because 3D flutes seem to cost in the same ballpark?

All traditional flutemakers, because this is a fundamental disruption?

No makers, because 3D printed flutes are not there yet? If so, what do you see as their biggest challenge to overcome?

I recognise I’ve posed rather a lot of questions, and can’t expect anyone to answer them all. But if you have any insights into any of the issues, please enlighten us!

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Great post, Terry. These are all valid questions, and I’ve wondered about them myself from time to time. So forgive my rather hefty response :slight_smile: In fact, I recently wrote a blog about technology and flute making and my own evolving views on the subject.

It would not surprise me to find that something like 3D printing will evolve quickly to be much more sophisticated and eventually make faithful reproductions of flutes that are not a compromise in quality, at least insofar as they play and sound. That seems like something that we can expect to happen.

The larger question is whether this is something we want to happen. This is all tied into the looming specter of AI as well. Technology is something that is going to continue to dominate at all levels because human beings are guided by “human nature”, and human nature is flawed :wink: . As a species we are very short-sighted and consequently we embrace pretty much anything that promises us money and power, and we don’t collectively pause and ask ourselves about the inherent risks because we are blinded by all the benefits that the same technology offers. Human history pretty much bears this out.

So for me, it’s all down to philosophy. Artists around the world are feeling the impact of AI because it is being used to supplant their work. If I understand it properly, these various AI tools are being trained by gathering up existing art (made by humans) and then learning to mimic it, thereby removing the need for someone to either be artistic or to employ an artist. So true artists and their work are the fodder. And what genuine artist is going to want to use AI themselves? To quote paddler:

“I wonder how many artists think, ‘Hey, maybe I could hire someone else to do my paintings or carve my sculptures?’ I wonder how many would voluntarily turn to AI? Not many, I’m sure, because basically people who employ these technologies are usually trying to cut out the artist or the flute maker from the business model. They don’t really care about the creative process. It is more just about making money. AI appeals to these people because they can’t do the creative task themselves. But most people who buy art want something that was created by an artist. And most artists want to make their art themselves.”

This hits the nail on the head. And I would extend this thought to the subject of 3D printing as well. It has all sorts of utility, and undoubtedly allows creative latitude in making designs and such, but the end result is “push button art” for those who want something functional for cheap. This is understandable, for sure. Art can be expensive. But this is another example of the short-sighted human response, because what does all of this mean for the future of art of all kinds? Once we have trained machines to do our creating for us, how enriching is that? And while an argument can be made that a 3D printed flute that plays well allows a musician to be creative on a budget, it also cuts away half of the equation because it supplants the instrument maker.

And even people who idealistically would want to support artists are going to be seduced by “cheap”. I have a musician friend who is releasing an album this year and he wanted some cool cover art. On past albums he hired an artist, but to save money he was considering having one of the new AI tools do it for him. And this is a person who doesn’t even like the idea of AI! We talked about it and he ended up changing his mind, but it’s a great example of how the bottom line can overrule our best intentions.

Some years ago I had a chat with Pat Olwell, and at that time he was expressing misgivings about 3D printing and its impact on flute makers. I shared his concerns, though I doubt his own business would be seriously threatened by the technology. But Terry’s question about who would be most impacted by the evolution of 3D printing is a good one.

I think there will always be people who want art from an artist, and they want instruments made from natural materials. How large that population will be going forward is unknown. But I’m encouraged by the fact that there are some artists pushing back against some of this technology. I have another musician friend who just launched a curated, online music platform for artists and absolutely no AI content is permitted.

For myself, I made a choice and I dismantled my CNC mill that I had been using for the last 13 years. This CNC gear was definitely not as sophisticated as something like 3D printing, nor was it remotely like AI (I had to painstakingly program it for every move it made), but it was more of a symbolic stance for me. I wanted less technology between me and the creative process, and the decision was totally liberating. It might impact my livelihood in degree, but I don’t care. I’d rather lean toward a more direct and authentic experience as an artisan, and my own personal version of that leans away from “high-tech”. This is why it is a philosophical position, because there are plenty of people who are completely on board with all of the emerging technology, happy to dive in and utilize it, seemingly (to me) without a thought as to the potential consequences. Maybe they just trust that everything will turn out all right, and they could be correct. Maybe after some chaos there will be some sort of balance.

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I think there is still a huge gap between where 3D printed instruments are, and the top of the line instruments from the best makers. And if you take aesthetic considerations into account, the gap is much bigger still.

I see the relationship between 3D printing and musical instrument making and being analogous to the relationship between MIDI and music making. MIDI technology has been around for decades, and you can easily plug in a tune and have it synthesize a performance for you on whatever virtual instrument you like. And over time it has got better and better, but has it supplanted the demand for human musicians?

I think, if anything, it has led people to appreciate the difference, and value what is authentic.

There have long been ways to cheaply make replicas of physical objects. For example, casting, and replicating using plastic in a mold. If you are making cheap instruments in that kind of way, then 3D printing will probably eat your lunch. But if you are producing exquisite, hand-crafted instruments from natural materials, I think there will always be a demand for that. And given the limited supply inherent in that way of making things (as Terry pointed out, it is really hard to make an excellent flute and takes many years to acquire the skills), the demand will probably always outstrip the supply.

I do think that 3D printing has potential for allowing makers to rapidly prototype new ideas, such as new bore designs. Narrowing down the design space like this would be useful before investing the effort and materials to make the end product.

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The time cost may be lower, but the cost of materials for making flutes out of resin is about half that of 3D printing, and the quality is higher as the bore is smooth and mirror-like, so I have no desire to switch over to 3D printing other than for developing new designs where it would save a massive amount of time testing ideas, and also for whistle adaptors where fiddly parts involving adjustable windways could be created at a much more affordable price and out of materials that are safe to stick in your mouth instead of having to stick a disc on the end to prevent insertion. I’ve been trying to make windways with springs where you push them in towards the wedge for the second octave and let it back out for the lower one to strengthen first octave notes instead of having to compromise between the two, but it take ages fiddling around making prototype parts and I just can’t get the work done due to other commitments. If I had a 3D printer it would be orders of magnitude easier to get it done as I could just design the thing once, then make small modifications repeatedly, printing and testing each time.

Overall, I see 3D printing as a way of getting decent instruments to more players by making them affordable, and that’s always a good thing. It will help to create more demand for the higher quality instruments too, so I don’t see it as competition for the artizan makers. I can see it leading to people owning more flutes - most people who like the idea of playing one never own one, but this will help put them in reach of every child who wants to give it a go. It will make the market a lot bigger. I played piano, violin, trumpet, recorder and whistles as a child (the first two were not my choice - my grandfather was a professional violinist), but I didn’t have a flute, which in retrospect was the instrument best suited to me. My sister played the flute and I didn’t want to be a copycat, but cost was the main barrier. With adequate instruments becoming more afordable, you can have more of them and then let whichever ones you get on with best determine your path. There’s plenty of room for 3D printed instruments in the market without taking anything away from the high end makers.

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I think this is true (for now) and certainly the ability to prototype using a 3D printer has a lot of attractions, especially when it comes to variations in bore profile. That is something that is hard to experiment with using conventional methods. My misgivings (such as they are) are more about the potential future of 3D printing if it evolves as rapidly as many technologies do. I can imagine it getting to the point where its current weaknesses have been transcended, and one might print a flute that is totally high quality from a sonic perspective, and it might even look and feel like wood. It’s an open question as to whether this really would open the door to players wanting to get artisan-made flutes as they grow, or whether they would feel any need to if the flute they have is satisfactory. As things currently stand a lot of the mass-produced flutes (be they wood, plastic, or printed) cannot compare to the best artisan-made flutes, so I think that for now your assertion is quite correct about 3D flutes being a gateway flute. But I can also (without being too far out and sci-fi) picture a future where every household has a highly sophisticated 3D printer, and you can download a flute app for $10 that allows you to print a fully functional, high quality instrument! And when this technology gets paired with AI, who knows what will be possible? Very Star Trek (“Tea, Earl Grey, hot!” becomes “Flute! Eight-key, Eflat!”) And I’m not even asserting that this is a bad thing, not really. I don’t personally like the idea of it, but that is just an emotional response based upon my own aesthetic. I have a healthy distrust of technology, generally speaking ;-). But it marches on, and all manner of skills (and artisans) have become extinct in the wake of technological advancements. Flute making might easily become a very niche endeavor-–far more than it is right now–in a world where a computer and printer can make anything you want. And it might easily make hand-crafted flutes all the more desirable, even if they are not sonically superior to printed versions.

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There are a few issues with 3D printed flutes that stop them being viable consumer products no matter how good they might sound.

For both PLA and Resin there are issues with low temp 40-60 deg degradation and warping.

With resin there are potential issues with toxicity.

With PLA the layer lines seriously interfere with the tone and also has issues with micro porosity holding water leading to mould. Its possible to sand and coat the bore but then you are back to manual work time better spent on a lathe and also again potentially toxic products.

There are other carbon fiber/ particle embeded fdm materials that are much better temp and water resistant but again im not convinced that its a good idea to have potentially loose carbon particles in a product such as a flute for obvious reasons

Right now i would say printing is great for prototyping or short term use practice flutes but ultimately machined wood/plastic/metal is still unbeatable for durable, non toxic, repairable flutes.

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I’ll share my opinion, since I’ve tested all of this myself — I’ve made flutes using traditional methods, restored simple-system flutes, and created several 3D-printed instruments (the Axianov flute is my work). I live in Russia and am probably unknown here as a maker of traditional flutes, but some well-known makers in Europe and the USA own reamers that I previously made to order. I won’t mention any names, as those makers might not want that.

I would say that traditional craftsmanship and creating instruments through printing are simply different genres. I see 3D printing primarily as a way to provide an instrument to those who can’t acquire a flute from a maker. This could be for financial reasons or geographical ones. And nowadays, printers are available in many places. At the same time, the instrument must be as high-quality as possible. This also depends on the responsibility of the person printing the flute — a thinner layer and a higher infill give a better result.

It would be difficult for me to compare my best Delrin flute and my best 3D-printed flute. It’s like comparing wheat bread to rye bread. When both are well-made, they’re both delicious.

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Wow, thanks all for the very thought-provoking responses!

I’m interested in the issue of bore roughness that several people have referenced. And the only 3D printed flute I’ve seen certainly had a rough bore. And I tried sanding it, and the stuff is incredibly tough and resists sanding and polishing.

Marat, you have much more experience in this technology than the rest of us. You mentioned finer printing as one way of improving the finish. I imagine though we still can’t expect the kind of finish we get off the reamer with our timber flutes. Any suggestions on what else a maker can do to bring the bore finish up to ideal? Just get more determined with the sanding? I also wondered if some kind of filler might help.

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I spent about four months experimenting with printer settings and different filaments to achieve low surface roughness. I never liked the idea of sanding PLA, even if it’s just to remove minor burrs. In the end, I learned to print with a surface quality close to sanded hardwood. Some design features were implemented with the same goal — to achieve clean printing straight from the printer, with no post-processing required.

I included a Cura print profile with the first STL files, but that file was eventually lost. My general recommendation is: 0.1 mm layer height, 100% infill, and printing at a relatively low speed. If I remember correctly, printing one flute took me about two days. I used eSun Matte filament. However, an experienced printer will tell you that this information alone is not enough for a high-quality surface. To achieve a quality result, you need to master printing at a truly good level, which is very different from “just pressing a button”. This also requires skill.

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Very interesting, Marat. So 3D printing in general is fairly straight forward providing the application isn’t very demanding. For example, my son got his 3D printer to make inserts for his tool cabinets to hold all the various tools in a convenient and secure manner. And he’s doing really well and enjoying the journey. And I’m enjoying looking over his shoulder.

But then we switch to a really demanding application like Irish flutes, and the picture changes. Just like for us traditional makers, the 3D printing flute maker is up against the same laws of physics, but with different constraints to work within. Smoothness of bore is essential, and we both have had to find ways to do that. Different ways, as it turns out.

It’s almost relieving to hear that you can’t knock out quality Irish flutes by simply pressing a button. If it were, people might wonder why we traditional makers spend so much time on it!

And as the 3D printing technology learns to come to grips with difficult fields like Irish flutes, we should see improvements in the end products. Makes me wonder what other fields are demanding more than average quality results.

Thanks again for your insights! We’ll probably have more questions for you as time progresses….

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My thoughts: I don’t think 3D printing is going to take away from the market yet.

Traditional FDM printers just aren’t capable of printing at a high-enough resolution reliably that a novice can print up a flute and be confident that it has no problems that will hinder learning.

A printer like a SLA printer printing resin can print reliably enough, but they’re expensive, and not many people have them.

What’s more likely, I think, is that we’ll see more makers getting into the market (like myself – chanters coming soon!) making entry-level instruments that are high quality and less expensive, as the traditional investment in machinery is no longer necessary. This will just add to the maker pool, and I don’t think it will take away from anyone, except perhaps the Pakistani shops.

I have a Galeón 3D printed flute, which was 3D printed and then finished and inspected by hand. The bore and the outside have definitely been smoothed, I would guess with sandpaper, just going by the few sanding marks I can see.

The only other flute I’ve played is a Tipple flute, so I’ll compare those two. There’s nothing that the Tipple does better, and I can’t think of any negatives of the Galeón flute. (Not a criticism of the Tipple flute, which I like, but when a flute costs ten times as much, it should do everything better!) I’ve not played a traditionally-made wooden flute to compare, but Terry, if you’ll send me one, I’ll be more than happy to do a full side-by-side comparison, and will even include sound samples!

Why did I go with a 3D printed flute? It is the only non-wooden 8-key flute on the market that I know of, and for various reasons I didn’t want to get a wooden flute. I’ve never felt limited by it, though, and I can get a pretty good sound from it, if I do say so myself!

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I believe there’s little point in creating copies of traditional instruments using printing methods. Technically, it’s already quite feasible to create a very close replica — printing the body from resin and using a metal printer for the rings and keys. While resin is toxic, measures can be taken to prevent skin contact, and that issue can also be addressed somehow.

However, in my opinion, modern technology is better served by embracing a modern aesthetic. If 3D technology allows us to create things that are impossible, difficult, or impractical to make using traditional methods, then we should leverage that capability. There is nothing wrong with an object that is made honestly and doesn’t pretend to be something it’s not.

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I don’t know how resin is used in 3D printing - it must have to set really fast before the next layer is added, but they’ll likely find ways to make it non-toxic. I make silicone moulds and use a food-safe resin for my flutes, so I don’t have any toxicity problems, though while it’s certified as food-safe, it’s only safe for dry foods and you don’t want to suck the stuff, making it unsuitable for the north end of conventional fipples.

I get a super-smooth bore that can’t be directly matched by wood or 3D printing, and I doubt that 3D printing could ever match it, but it might be able to catch up with the finest grain wood. In both cases you can coat the bore afterwards with something to smooth it, though it’s tricky to get an even application of anything. (Geoffrey’s the expert at doing that with epoxy and I wouldn’t ask him to give away his secrets.)

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I think there will always be a special appeal in high-end flutes made by human experts where an instrument is a work of art and is collectable as an investment just like paintings, and it will always feel more special to own and play such an instrument. No 3D printed instrument will ever have that attribute. It’s the low-end manufacturers that are under threat from this, but they should be well placed to make the move to 3D printing. The issue for them will be how to make money from instruments that customers may end up printing locally. It’ll be possible to print and sell directly, of course, but most buyers will be looking to save cost by printing it themselves, so what’s the model for getting a cut whenever your design is used?

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The subject of toxicity has come up several times, and it would be good to clarify what that means to makers and players. So, a few questions…

How toxic are we talking? Mild skin rash, breathing difficulties, instant death?

Who is at risk? The maker, the player, anyone in the room?

How are the toxins generated? A gas released during printing, just touching the flute, blowing air through it, sanding?

What precautions are helpful? Gloves, face mask, dust extraction, wet sanding?

We should keep in mind that timbers are not innocent here either. African Blackwood dust causes “sniveling conjunctivitis” to anyone sensitive to it.

My workshop has 3 dust extractors, linked up to 15 ports, each one fitted with a microswitch. Open any port and that starts up the associated dust extractor. Would a similar approach help with 3D printing and polishing flutes?

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I have the exact same question Terry!

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Heh heh, there’s something about that word “toxic” that catches the eye, isn’t there….

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Nowadays, my attitude towards 3D-printed instruments is roughly the same as my attitude towards Open Source software. People don’t pay for Blender or FreeCAD, but they can donate to the developers who work on these programs. That’s why I also publish my files in the public domain, and anyone can do whatever they want with them. If I create new models, I will release them into the public domain as well. People are free to distribute the files and make modifications to them, which is already happening. I don’t think anyone has gotten rich by printing and selling flutes using my files.

Although, the donation system doesn’t come close to covering the work that was invested. The files have been downloaded by about five thousand people, and throughout this entire time, I’ve received far more kind words from musicians than donations. In the end, I’ve come to think of creating instruments for printing as simply my hobby.

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SLA/DLP printers use resin that is toxic if inhaled, comes into contact with skin, or when sanding the printed objects. Furthermore, items made from these resins can cause allergic reactions with prolonged contact. There may be resins certified for manufacturing products that come into contact with food or skin/mucous membranes, but I have not heard of any. That is why I prefer FDM printers and PLA as the material for such items.

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Fascinating, Marat. So, we’re not just seeing a new technology for making flutes, we’re seeing a new methodology for distribution. You don’t sell the flutes, you publish the information on how people can print them for themselves. For which you sometimes receive payment.

That doesn’t seem to fit the usual economic model - you send me dollars, I’ll send you flute. So, what is driving you? Just keen to see people printing flutes?

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You see, not everything in the world is done for profit. If I have the ability to create something that fascinates me, I’ll do it regardless of whether I can monetize it. This is especially the case when I’ve come up with something new and can truly “make my mark” on a craft. An invention can be genuinely useful without being the kind of thing that makes money for its inventor. These things happen.

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