3D printed flutes - are we there yet?

Irish Flute
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I can’t speak to flutes, specifically, but I have some experience printing whistles. I had a Square-based shop open online, but I have since taken it down as eating too much into the costs. But that doesn’t mean I’ve stopped making whistles :smiley:

I can verify much of what Marat has said from my own experience (again with whistles). I can consistently make them, but I’ve also distributed the model files (for free) on one of the 3d printing maker sites. And while many people have successfully used that model, I do get people writing with complaints that can be boiled down to “learn to print better” as the answer.

PLA isn’t as leaky or porous as the folk wisdom would have you believe. Or perhaps printers have gotten better at filling those holes. I’ve seen old reports that you couldn’t use 3d printed materials to hold water, because eventually, they would ‘sweat’ it out. About a month ago, I made a vase for some hastily-bought roses, and that vase has held the water (Without leaking). There have been some 3d print influencers who have tested standard prints by submerging them and showing negligible weight gain (and therefore negligible water uptake) with modern printing techniques. I would imagine that in most cases, a 3d printed instrument would have no more (or less) mold issues than any plastic whistle.

As for giving away the files, I actually earn ‘points’ on that site, based on number of downloads, quality of votes, etc, which I can then turn into filament/parts/printers/etc. I realized one of the reasons I wanted to get into 3d printing whistles wasn’t to become a famous maker, or to make a living at it, but to get decent instruments in people’s hands that otherwise might shy away at the price of a high end instrument.

And I still sell a decent number of them at shows/events.

As for toxicity, PLA is used int he medical and food industries. Alone, it’s considered non-toxic. Resin printing is (as noted) different on this score. The problem is colors/additives/etc may not be as non-toxic, and not all manufacturers freely share their MSDS reports.

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The epoxy I use with silicone moulds is a brand called Craft Resin. Although it’s non-toxic, it still releases a chemical into the air while still liquid and curing which users can become allergic to, and then they can never work with the stuff again, so it’s still important to work in a well ventilated area and to minimise exposure to it, including direct contact. Other brands may be carcinogenic and I wouldn’t risk working with them, but also, the final product wouldn’t be safe for extended contact by the player of the instrument, and I wouldn’t even use them for the bore because the water dripping out of the flute could then be toxic. (There is another food-safe brand called Mouldd which is almost certainly just the same stuff sourced from China.)

The silicone rubber that I use to make moulds is also food-safe and they’re often used for cooking. I recently made a silicone mesh with the stuff to use in an air fryer to keep the food off the “non-stick” surface of a plate which was becoming hard to clean, but this keeps it cleaner and also protects the food from that nasty coating.

I used alcohol inks in some of my flutes and it creates interesting patterns, but even after a year I can see that these colours are still moving around a little through the solid resin - there was one bit that looked like a turtle dove, but I looked at it the other day and couldn’t find it at first as it’s gone fuzzy and merged into another shape that used to be distinct from it. These inks are not certified as food-safe, but I lock them in under a layer of clear resin which is the recommended way of stopping them reaching the surface.

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Well said Marat! As someone who spent their whole career contributing software, inventions, and ideas to the public domain (via publications and open source) I find it refreshing and inspiring to hear you reaffirm this. I dream of a world in which creators can make a decent living while end users can benefit while paying, or not, according to their means. I do occasionally make voluntary contributions to people who make something that I find useful, available for free.

I tend to be more driven by a desire to further knowledge for the good of humanity, than for maximizing my own personal profit. Maybe that is a luxury I can afford because I’m not struggling to put food on the table, but I like to think there is more to it than that.

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Indeed, it was that last point that I was wondering about. How is the maker to be able to feed the family if they give the fruits of their labour away?

But then I think of how many years of work my website research has taken. Fortunately sales of flutes have always been enough to keep the family fed! Which is an extraordinary thing when you come to think of it. Being able to make a living making Irish flutes in a little village on the NSW South Coast, almost halfway round the world from Ireland!

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26

Hi, this topic is very interesting. I am currently making a 3D printed flute. I can create any conical hole model that I want to design.
I am using photopolymerization resin 3D printing technology, and the gas emitted by the liquid resin is indeed toxic. Therefore, it is necessary to pay attention to ventilation during production.
The toxicity of the resin after production is very small, but its harm may not be as great as a cigarette.
However, I am currently working on a nesting using 304 stainless steel as the head blow hole, and food grade 304 stainless steel can completely dispel people’s concerns.

I like flutes made of wood. From my personal aesthetic perspective, the charm of wood cannot be replaced by 3D printing. At present, I am using 3D printing technology because I do not have the conditions to purchase and install lathe equipment, and at the same time, I need to conduct a large number of experiments to verify the conical hole design scheme.

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I have been developing my own hand-finished 3D printed flute too so I was happy to see this topic pop up.

My opinion, I think additive manufacturing machines of all types are powerful tools. I don’t think it creates an “inferior” instrument to a handmade flute or is necessarily a cheaper option for making an instrument. Like Marat said, you can just press a button and print a flute, but it takes an expert who knows the finer details of the instrument and the 3D printing process to create something high quality. A different genre is a good way to look at it.

Take for example the resin shakuhachi that are being made by Hon-on. It’s a professional level instrument that is more durable, forgiving, and consistent than a bamboo flute.

There’s also the glissotar, they have a more affordable 3D printed model and it has its advantages over the wooden flagship model,

Some of these additive machines are dental and medical grade too, they print very fine details and there materials available that are non-reactive, non-toxic once properly finished.

On the flutes I make I have found the mouthpiece to be critical. I hand sand and polish each mouthpiece to a fine edge and mirror like surface. I hand tune the toneholes too although they generally don’t need much done. The tennons also get tape, thread, or cork.

I polish the bore of some of the flutes and generally found it had a positive effect on the tone and playability, but not to the extent of finishing the mouthpiece. The surface is pretty smooth even before the finishing process.

I’ve even made 1:1 prints of professional flutes and have found that my flutes consistently are louder, brighter, more dynamic, easier to play, have more harmonic content, and have a wider range of timbres available. I don’t think they sound “plasticy” although they do sound distinctly different and some people might prefer the mellowness the other flutes..

I’ve also made mouthpieces for overtone flutes that attach to pvc or copper pipe. They also work great and are tons of fun.

@Marat - Thanks for answering the questions I had about your irish flute, I really love the design. If you want to share I would like to see the new tonehole you use. I’ve experimented with toneholes similar to your irish flute but for now I am just doing a droplet shape then finishing a bit by hand.

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My immediate question with this type of flute is the quality of the bore surface. It only caught my attention because he chose to use urushi to finish the bores, which is puzzling. I’ve used urushi before and my own view is that if you can avoid using it, so much the better! Highly allergenic (I had a friend who was in Japan buying a shakuhachi, and he ended up in the hospital after playing the flute). I would imagine that the reason for the urushi was simply to smooth the bore, which I wouldn’t think would be necessary. If the resin can be sanded and polished, why coat it at all? Curious.

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Those of us in North America are well aware of what urishiol from its close cousin, poison ivy, can do.

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Indeed! I understand why urushi was used as a traditional finish (before synthetic finishes came along) but these days there are so many alternatives that are safer. But I digress…

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My 3d printed edc flute

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The maker says its almost indistinguishable from a bamboo flute so I’m guessing the aim is authenticity. There’s a cashew paste version that swaps out the urushi paste for those sensitive to it.

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That makes some sense. I suppose I’d have to see what an untreated resin flute looks like.

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I also started out by modeling exact copies of flutes when I first learned CAD. I thought I would be printing them in resin, but I soon realized that dealing with resin was something I definitely didn’t want to do, and that FDM printing requires a different approach.

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Endeed, photopolymer resin is unhealthy, but it is fast and stable in printing. I normally print prototypes in photopolymer, try (and fix the issues) and when the file is ready, I order a proper filament print (as I don’t possess such printer). The print normally requires some fine sanding, but not to much

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I read all these very interesting posts and I didn’t see Casey Burns’ name come up.

He was making some 3D printed flutes a few years back. I think they were prototypes. AFAIK he never put them in production.

In any case it would be interesting to hear him chime in on this.

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Agreed. But if I recall Casey left the forums, never to return. Stormed out, as it were. According to his website he has retired completely from commercial flute making, but is still experimenting. Maybe his 3D printed flutes (and the glass flutes) are still something he is trying out, so perhaps we’ll hear from him again.

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Hello everyone, I am the maker of Galeon flutes. First of all, I would like to express my huge respect to all the predecessors who make traditional Irish flutes.

I started making Irish flutes with Delrin in 2012, and about four years ago, I began using 3D printing technology to produce keyed Irish flutes. I believe I can share some insights:

The initial reason for making 3D-printed flutes was that I didn’t have the conditions to produce wooden keyed flutes—this requires a fully equipped independent workshop, machinery, and a stable supplier of instrument-grade wood. Fortunately, after 2020, China’s 3D printing capabilities have become incredibly advanced. I can choose from many 3D printing factories to collaborate with, and there are various resins with different properties available. These factories can handle printing on a meter scale, with some capable of printing parts as large as five meters or even bigger. With current high-precision resin materials, SLA printing technology can achieve an accuracy of 0.05mm, which is much higher than FDM printers and enough for musical instruments.

Regarding McGee’s first question: At what stage are we with 3D printing now? I noticed a post from 2010 in this thread titled “Three-D printing - a threat to flute makers?” which mostly discussed the high cost of 3D printing. Now, 15 years later, 3D printing has become increasingly affordable and precise, you can even get decent results with consumer printers. However, it’s important to note that there is a significant difference between consumer-grade FDM printers and industrial 3D printers. Consumer-grade printers are essentially advanced toys, while on the industrial side, it’s worth mentioning that the newly released Apple Watch Ultra 3 this year already uses titanium alloy 3D printing technology for its case, which is then finished with secondary processing. This is a commercial product on a scale of millions. So, the reality now is that 3D printing is fully capable of mass-producing components for industrial products, with just some additional processing required. For instrument making, there are technically no issues—what remains are commercial considerations.

The second question concerns the gap between 3D-printed instruments and wooden instruments. Taking the Galeon 8-key flute as an example, I believe it can achieve over 80% of the performance of a traditional wooden flute. Here are some comparisons:

Performance: Traditional flutes have the advantage. Wood offers a unique sound that is irreplaceable. However, in terms of basic tone and performance, 3D-printed flutes are entirely adequate, especially after fine polishing of the inner bore.

Appearance: Traditional flutes are superior. Currently, among resin materials, only white offers the highest precision; other colors have lower precision, while most users prefer darker appearances. For key materials, 3D metal printing only achieves about 0.2mm precision, and the surface finish is not ideal, leaving much room for improvement in the future.

Cost: 3D-printed flutes have an absolute advantage and can be produced in batches.

Reliability: Each has its characteristics. 3D-printed materials won’t crack due to dryness, but they are prone to deformation under high temperatures and discoloration when exposed to sunlight. However, new printing materials are continuously evolving, and there are already various high-temperature resin available.

The third question is about who is most affected by 3D-printed flutes. My view is that entry-level wooden flutes are more impacted, as beginners are less sensitive to sound quality and performance but highly sensitive to price. 3D-printed keyless flutes can be produced at very low costs (I even hope they can immediately replace the poor-quality flutes from Pakistan). The impact on keyed flutes is smaller because users who purchase keyed flutes are either wealthy enough to want the best from the start or already have some experience with keyless flutes and tend to prefer traditional wooden keyed flutes.

One additional point: I think it’s necessary to distinguish between “DIY with consumer-grade 3D printers” and “commercial brands using industrial 3D printing technology.” The former can be shared and discussed as a personal hobby and technical exchange, while the latter is a commercial endeavor. 3D printing is just one step in the process—or rather, it can only produce preliminary parts. These parts still require fine polishing, assembly, sound tuning, and more to become a qualified instrument. All of this demands years of accumulated experience from the maker.

To summarize:

  1. 3D printing is not only revolutionizing musical instrument manufacturing but will also bring changes to every aspect of our lives.
  2. 3D-printed flutes have a certain impact on traditional instrument makers, compelling them to reflect and create more competitive products.
  3. 3D-printing will reduce the production cost of flutes (and other instruments) , making previously hard-to-attain instruments accessible to more people and helping to further promote some niche instruments.
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39

All my research into the acoustics of woodwind instruments indicates that the material’s internal structure does not affect the sound. What truly matters are the instrument’s geometric parameters and the surface roughness. There is some research about the spectral coloration added by the bell of brass instruments, but with Irish flutes, we are dealing with a different case.

Therefore, 3D-printed instruments can be objectively on par with wooden ones. Yet, subjectively, some, or even many, musicians may feel that a printed instrument is not as good.

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I mostly agree with this :slight_smile:

The Materials Argument

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We’re only human, and inherently subjective — we perceive a wooden flute as inherently better than a plastic one, much like we find a dessert in a round bowl to be sweeter than the same dessert in a square one.