Hi, folks.
I need a good digital recorder for capturing high quality whistle soundclips in the field. The Zoom h4n is the one that’s come up in various reviews as the best candidate.
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1994
Does anyone have experience with this model?
Pros, cons, tips?
Is there another recorder I should be looking at instead?
Thanks!
Best wishes,
Jerry
I’ve got the older one (without the “n”)… It is a superb way to record the whistle (or in my case, usually flute).
Pat
Jerry, I have no experience with the H4n but here’s what I have experience with.
I use three field recordering set-ups. Your needs probably vary from mine.
The hand held portable two track recorder I use is the Zoom H2. It works very well and I have had no issues with it at all. It very simple and straightforward to use. The built in microphones are good. They pick up everything and I mean everything. I passed on the H4 (no H4n at that time) when I bought the H2 because I did not need the additional features considering what I already owned and used. Placement of the recorder/mics makes the difference in the results you will achieve. I use this to record workshops and sessions as well as concert performances which I want to hold on to (where permitted). It works well as a handy personal recorder too.
I have tried various MP3 player/recorder with built in mics and did not like the results. I did try a couple Olympus digital voice recorders which were nice but the H2 kicks their butts for sound quality and signal strength. The dedicated field recorders with substantial mics from Tascam, Sony, Olympus and others all work very well. The Zoom is rather budget priced in comparison to the rest of the pack but the results are fine IMO.
I use a Fostex VF08 for more detailed two track recording and use dedicated mics which vary depending on the needs for the recording. This is quite a bit more cumbersome to operate than the H2 only because of the user interface on the Fostex. It’s still not a big package. The recordings are very good though. The advantage of this over the Zoom is that I can place the mics where they make the most sense, then run cables from the mics to the recorder so that I can monitor the recording without being very near the stage.
I recently moved to using a laptop with a USB interface from a mixer to allow multi-track recording and the use of more microphones for each sound source. It’s like having much of my home studio in a portable package. I’ll probably retire the Fostex.
Hope that helps.
Feadoggie
there was a Pub thread recently that mentioned the H4n & a few others (I think someone had an H2…)
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/good-affordable-tape-recorder/63874/1
there are quite a few mentions if you search on zoom H2
I believe I’ve read most of the posts having anything to do with digital recorders, including the thread you’ve referenced. I’ve studied online reviews of the several digital recorders mentioned, and so far, I haven’t encountered anything to lead me in a different direction.
The other question is, what’s the best way to set one of these up for a whistle? Since mic placement is key, I wonder how you position it? Do you have to hold it, or is there some sort of stand arrangement?
Edited to add:
The product information states:
The mic clip adapter works perfectly when attaching the unit to a standard mic stand, or you can use the built-in tripod mount with a standard camera tripod.
I don’t know anything about mic stands, but there must be some sort of lightweight, collapsible mic stand I can get. Any advice on that?
Best wishes,
Jerry
This is gonna sound a little strange and may be a bit hard to picture, but I tie a string through the microphone guards and put it around my neck, letting it sit about in the middle of my chest. Seems to work really well. Only problem is that it is hard to change settings unless I remove it from my neck - I’ve got old eyes and can’t see the little characters that close (and upside down). I use mine mostly for flute and I really like how this technique seems to cut out the embouchure “hiss” I sometimes hear from other mic placements.
Pat
I’ll be recording other people, and the situation will be variable. Sometimes there’ll be a table and chairs, sometimes just chairs. It looks like the mic clip adapter means it will fit on a standard mic stand.
Maybe I need both a lightweight tripod floor stand and an adjustable height tabletop stand. Does that make sense?
Best wishes,
Jerry
I’d try the camera tripod. (maybe 'cause I’ve got one)
It would work on a table top or on the floor.
Pat, that has to be the cheapest shock isolation mount I have ever heard of. Good one!
I think all of the good digital recorders have a threaded insert that fits a standard camera tripod. the Zooms surely do. In fact, that mic stand adapter threads into the tripod insert. For sessions and workshops I thread the recorder on to a small flexible tabletop tripod. It’s stable and the tripod absorbs some vibrations too. For concerts the H2 sits nicely in a shirt pocket.
You may not need the mic stand adapter. The mic stand adapter does work though and I use that at concert performances where I have permission to place the recorder at the front of the house. I insert the mic adapter into a small rubbery shock isolation mount meant for typical dynamic mic’s like the SM58/57 I’ve also used other suspension shock mounts with some success.
The H2 (and H4n) has four microphones and they are arrayed into two different x-y patterns with a two different stereo spreads. How you position the recorder depends on what you are recording and how wide the sound field is. Placement of the Zoom is exactly the same as for any mic placement application. You can go to Shure or Audio-Technica (and others) to collect some background on how to best use a mic. For personal recording I would place the recorder about two to three feet away and maybe a foot below the whistle head. Make a few test recordings to set your gain. Zoom also has compression which works well but if your gain is set properly you won’t need it. On the H2 it sometimes helps to sit the mics facing away from the direct sound source. If you set up the mics so that they are off axis to the sound source (in other words not directly pointed at the whistle/flute head) you can avoid much of the noise a lot of folks end up with. Basically you play with it until you find what works best for you. I think Zoom had a lot of material in the user manual about how to get a good recording and it is probably useful.
The H4n is probably a very good unit. I have run into a lot of enthusiasts at concerts that use the Edirol, Tascam and Sony units. Ruggedness and longevity may vary from brand to brand. I have acquaintances that use a Tascam and one of the Sony units(cost about $2k). The recordings I have listened to are very nice from all of these. After 45 years of collecting/accumulating mic’s for different recording purposes it was a real surprise hear what you can do with one of these recorders. Let us know how you get on with it.
Feadoggie
OK. I’ve looked at a bunch of camera tripods, and they look awkward because of the amount of room the legs take.
I can get a tripod base mic stand and put a 19" gooseneck at the top, which looks like the best combination of comfort and portability. I can get a simple desktop mic stand and put a similar 19" gooseneck on that, as well.
These aren’t that expensive. The whole setup will cost about $60.
Any comments?
Best wishes,
Jerry
$30
$35
both if these allow you to control the spread of the legs
Yup. Tripods.
Here’s what I’m thinking about doing for the floor based stand:
With a gooseneck on top, it will cantilever to reach close to the whistle without getting in the player’s way. I’m thinking that would be the most comfortable setup.
For the tabletop stand, I’m thinking of getting one of these simple stands and putting a gooseneck on it so it’ll cantilever similarly:
The point is, it’s extremely kind, and valuable for me, when exceptional players offer to record clips. I want to make the setup as efficient and pleasant to work with as possible.
Best wishes,
Jerry
I have a bunch of tripods for both still photography and video. I’ve got a bunch of mic stands too. But what I use for the H2 is a simple flexible mini tripod, meant for a miniature digital camera. Probably cost no more than 5 bucks. It’s more than stable enough. It just sits on a table or a chair if necessary. Or can be wrapped around most anything. The H2 comes with a simple three point stand. It is plenty stable but, being hard plastic, it transmits vibrations to the recorder. The little tripod works great and is easy to carry around.
You’ll only need a big tripod if you have to set it up on the floor and raise it up to a workable height. A lightweight backpacking tripod like the one Denny suggests would work fine.
The first thing I would try is just resting the recorder on a table top sitting on a piece of foam or a towel. The foam or fabric will absorb vibrations and the recorder would still be quite secure.
No need to spend a lot of bucks.
Feadoggie
It may be we’re working from different priorities here. For what I’m trying to do, saving fifty dollars isn’t important at all.
What’s most important is, I’ll need to be able to set up quick and easy, I’ll need have everything as close to 100% goof proof and hassle free as possible, and I’ll need to be able to get absolutely the highest quality recordings possible, which means the precise mic placement is very important.
I’m working with players I encounter on the fly at a distance from home whom I might not see again for a long time, so it’s not going to be something I can do over if I’m not happy with the result.
Best wishes,
Jerry
Hi
Thanks Jerry for starting this thread,
yesterday evening I’d been searching for recording equipment
and not knowing what these things were called I was having no luck.
I need a recorder (no not that sort 
) for learning tunes they play at
our session and the Zoom H2 seems to fit the bill but I have a question,
I presume I’ll be able to save the recordings to my computer as mp3s
and then transfer them to my ‘Transcribe’ program for learning?
Would I need the extra features the H4n gives?
Nick
You can read the manuals online ahead of time if you wish.
That may help with some of the questions.
I bought the H2 after enquiring on here. It was way out of my original budget, but worth it to me. ‘Does what it says on the tin’. Some minor niggles, but nothing is perfect. The niggles have all been covered in the online reviews, as have the numerous good points. Very good for its price, slightly over spec for my needs, but there was nothing at or slightly under my spec.
Thanks for that Phill,
I think the H2 will do all I’ll need.
Nick
I’ve ordered the h4n digital recorder.
Are there any more comments/recommendations on mic stands? I don’t want to make the purchase until I’m sure I’ve had a chance to consider all the pros and cons.
Best wishes,
Jerry
Just wanted to add an experience with the H2. I was setting up for a lecture and used the mic stand mount for the first time. The mic fell off but I was lucky enough to catch it. The top of the mount with the threaded insert wasn’t glued onto the main “tube” of the mount, so I had to use a desktop placement. Glued it back on when I was home, but it was a close call. I’d look that over if you’ve got something similar for the H4n.
A different comment is that I often use and H2 and an H4 for recording “off the board” for concerts. The line-in for the H2 is very sensitive and doesn’t handle normal signal levels that are ok for other gear. I make sure to attenuate the input a bit in that application.
My understanding is that the compression / roll-off isn’t effective on the H2, according to some on-line technical analysis. Defintly pays to experiment in advance and try a variety of settings to see how the device responds to your conditions.
Aside from that, I’ve been happy with the unit. I probably would have gotten the H4n if it were available at the time, though, for the additional inputs, remote, better noise spec, etc.
I own an H4n and an H2. I put two pairs of recordings (made simultaneously with the microphones as nearly in the same location as possible) from the two recorders here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a1be82c87c7e349cd9d5c56d04dfa8b02a7792592a9a57a6947708e37b913e74
Unfortunatly, neither is a recording of a whistle.
To me it’s obvious that the H2 has a lot more noise and the H4n records a
lot more detail. The recordings were made in 44.1 khz 16bit wav files and
are unedited in any way, except for length.
The H2 is really, really good, but the H4n is spectacular.
The H2 is more than sufficient for recording sessions, lessons, and workshops.
My H4n came as a package deal with a microphone stand. It included an adapter that goes from microphone stand threads to 1/4" thread.
Earlier in this thread someone said that the h4n has four microphones built in, but this is incorrect.
One really handy feature the H2 has is the sensitivity switch on the side. I leave the recording level set at 100. The low sensitivity setting is then perfect for recording bagpipes, while the high setting is perfect for violin. The H4n does not have this feature, and you have to set recording levels. One handy feature of the H4n is the speaker. It’s great to be able to hear your prhasing without needing to put in earbuds.
The killer feature of the H4n is the 48v phantom power on the XLR inputs.
The H2 is small enough you can put it in a shirt pocket and the microphones face outward. It will also stand on a table. And the 360 degree recording technology sounds really cool for a session, but I lack four channel output on my PC, so I’ve never tried it out.
After my wife and I got the H2, we found that both of us were wanting to use it on a regular basis, so we decided to get another. I figured there was no point to having two of the exact same recorder, which is why I got the H4n. I think I use the H2 more often when I go someplace, and the H4n more at home.