I would like to record my flute playing thru a mic with my computer. Do I need a USB mic or the kind that connects directly into the sound card? I presume I can use Music Match to record with and save the file to post on the net. Can anyone give me some direction? I am useing Windows XP.
Thanks..Scottie
That sounds like it would work. All you need to record on your computer is some kind of input and then a program that records. Audacity is a great (and free) program for recording that lets you do some editing and then convert to mp3. Keep in mind with your input though that the quality of mic will severly impact the quality of recording. If you use the standard mic that comes with a desktop computer it will really show on your recording.
Audacity can be found at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Good luck.
I never had much luck recording to the computer despite using a variety of mics. I think my problem is either:
A) lack of a sound card, my computer uses built in audio
B) interference from the computer or monitor causing the recording to be noisy
My solution was to record with a digital voice recorder and then upload via USB to the computer. A bonus is that my recorder is portable and I can take it anywhere.
That’s something I’ve encountered too. I’m going to upgrade my soundcard in a couple of weeks here, so hopefully that will fix it.
What kind of digital voice recorder do you use? I’ve got one (like a $50 model), but the quality is really poor.
You might find that you need a preamp. I use a tube ultragain mic100 (http://www.behringer.com/MIC100/index.cfm?lang=ENG) which is fairly cheap and seems to do the trick.
It is a Sony recommended by Michael Eskin. Bit rate is low, but quality is approximates radio listening quality. The latest Sony model is the ICD-ST25 for about $150, mine is the model before and I paid about $80, 18 months ago. I have used it a great deal and it is enough for recording tunes to learn, or samples to upload.
Eskin recently suggested an Olympus DS-2 or DS20, $140 to $200 retail, with CD bit rate sampling and mic jack. The Olympus DS2 can be found on Ebay for around $100 USD. A mic jack and an external microphone can help a great deal.
Some other people like the IRiver brand.
It sounds like most of you do not approve or have had any luck with decent sound from trying to record thru you mic directly into you sound card. I built a computer with an Abit board (NF8 series) that came with 6 channel audio CODEC. I do not know off hand what the CODEC is but figured since it had a mic input that I would try that. If it does not give a good sound recording I may have to scrap that idea and go with the digital voice recorder. I bought a little mp3 player last year that I could record into but that is just not good enough. I may have to break down for an Olympus D. recorder. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks to all of you.
Scottie
Best course of action might be to download the Audacity freeware, then borrow a half-way decent mic from a friend and try it. Then you’ll know if recording is viable on your current computer setup. Another alternative is to buy a mic from a store that will accept returns and tell them what you would like. You can return the mic if you are unable to record. Some folks have had good experiences recording to their computer with relatively inexpensive mics (such as the clip on mic from RadioShack).
Personally, I did not want to spend the money on a separate soundcard (and possibly a preamp), when for a modest amount of money I could get a device that does field recording. 90% of my recording is away from home.
I mentioned the IRiver MP3 players. I have seen the flash memory IRivers for well under $100 USD on various websites and their recording quality seems significantly better than competing MP3 players.
You certainly want to avoid microphone level audio ever having to go into your computer. Better even to avoid any analog audio going into the computer - it’s a totally repugnant environment for sound.
We’ve had excellent results from an external soundbox made by Tascam - the US-122. It is powered from the USB port that also delivers the digitised audio to and from the computer. It can handle mic and line inputs, provides phantom power for condenser mics, and comes bundled with a “lite” version of Cubase, which, not withstanding the LE, is an extraordinary package. Importantly, it manages the syncing when overdubbing, which the audio editor programs like Wavelab or Audacity don’t. I have it set up with a large diameter condenser mic on one channel, for vocals, fiddles etc, and a small diameter condenser on the other, for other instruments. This is all a bit new, so none of the sounds on my web page employ this system - I’ll try to remember to mention it here when I upload something.
A nice feature of Cubase is that it has automation, so mixdowns are no longer a chore. A great audio editor too, so problems can be fixed up entirely within the program. Has Midi too, so if you’re keyboard literate, there’s probably nothing you couldn’t achieve.
The only limitation I’ve seen is that there is a small number of conversions to MP3 permitted. So just save in Wav and use another program to convert. An odd limitation.
There are probably other similar systems offered by other manufacturers, so look around before buying. But highly recommended.
Terry
Bill, Which of the IRiver models will let you record? I recently went looking for just such a beast (flash-based mp3 with recording capablilties) and ended up with an Olympus VN480-pc, because the ipods, irivers, sony’s, etc. that I could find at Best Buy and the other major electronics stores would only allow transfer of files, not recording. This voice recorder is a good value for the what I paid, but wasn’t what I was looking for. Any thoughts on a good, low cost (relatively) mp3 recorder?
OOPS. I found it. The IRIVER T10 and t30 both record.
One other option for doing this is Samson’s new USB mic, the CO1U. It is a high-quality condenser mic with built-in preamp for under US $100; it plugs directly into your USB input. I got one of these a few weeks ago and am quite impressed; the sound quality is decent, nearly as good as recordings made with external USB or Firewire units like the M-Box or Firebox, which cost four times as much and are frequently problematic. It’s the simplest solution I’ve seen for making good-quality recordings directly from mic to computer. It comes with a cable and works out of the box with Windows XP or Mac OSX. All you need is a mic stand and some good recording software on your computer.
Here’s a sample of what a flute recorded with this mic can sound like (this is MP3, so it’s compressed; an uncompressed file would sound even better):
Does your computer have a stand alone sound card? Can you make a decent recording using a regular mic (no preamp) plugged into the “mic in” port (I can not)? Is the main feature of this Samson mic the built in preamp? If the answer is yes, wouldn’t someone be just as well off buying a separate mic and a separate preamp (much wider selection and can buy used)?
any european members on the forum who can comment on this, I would be interested which brands are available over here…
berti
As Terry mentioned above, mic level signals are pretty useless when fed directly into a computer. If you use a good mic and a pre-amp and fire a line level signal into the computer then there is no reason why you cannot make great recordings - a la Brad!
I use a large diaphragn condenser and the preamp in my little Soundcraft mixer and get great results. The question of buzz from the monitor & background hum from the fan in the PC can easily be eliminated by good mic placement (which I consider the most important step in recording.)
Personally, I run the mic cable 10 or 15 feet either into my hall, which has a wooden floor, or my bathroom, which is tiled. Then I play with the mic placement until I get a nice balance between the direct sound of the flute & the reflections from these hard surfaces. The aim is to get the best possible sound into the PC and do as little as possible with it once it gets there - ie little EQ, little reverb, compression etc.
Computers are great for recording - we have more recording technology in the average PC than Brian Wilson ever had in the 60’s - it just needs a bit of thought and a good pair of ears to get the most out of it.
I’m using a Mac (PowerBook G4); all Macs have built-in sound cards so this is not an issue. I spent a few months researching other options before settling on the Samson. I already own a few good mics, so I didn’t think it would make sense to buy another one that would work only with my computer and not on the stage. But when I started reading up on the M-Box and its similar-but-better Firewire alternatives (e.g., the Presonus Firebox), I discovered that these options are more complicated, more expensive, and would entail additional expenses such as a separate high-speed hard drive (7200 rpm or higher for best results). With the M-Box and similar products you’re advised to not record to the boot disk. I didn’t want to deal with all that; I just wanted a simple way to record decent-quality audio directly into my computer.
As a general rule, the mic-in and line-in ports on PCs and Macs are pretty lousy. To get good sound you’re better off going through USB or Firewire. The Samson mic goes into the computer via USB.
The Samson won’t get you studio-quality sound, but it’s remarkably good for the price. For me, the virtue of the Samson is its simplicity. You put the mic on a stand, plug the mic into the computer’s USB port, fire up your recording software, set your level, and start recording. It’s almost as easy as using my PowerBook’s built in microphone but the results are much, much better.
There’s an informative review of the Samson mic here:
http://www.macintouch.com/samsonc01u.html
Having said all that, I agree that using a field recorder is the most versatile solution…a good minidisc or hard disk recorder like the iRiver will get you decent sound and provide a lot more flexibility for recording lessons, sessions, etc.
But check or test the inherent noise level of the mic pre-amp built into the device first. I’ve always found it extraordinary that many (most?) nice recording devices still have the most rudimentary mic preamps. Perhaps they assume you will be recording from a mixer, or recording grunge bands close up or aircraft noise at 1 metre. Recording acoustic music, human speech and natural sounds was clearly not in the design brief!
Recording flute should be easy. The frequency response requirements of the microphone are only say 300Hz to 10kHz, nothing difficult there. You have plenty of level - around 100dB SPL providing you mic close. Good levels, but not enough to cause overload. So what’s so hard?
Biggest issue is probably noise, and this is why the attention to mic and mic preamp noise levels is important. Many electret microphones have a self noise of around 35dB, so your 100dB flute sound can at best have a signal to noise ratio of 65dB - about that of a good analog recorder, a bit wet when compared to the possible 96dB of a 16 bit digital system. Pull back on playing a bit on a quiet piece and you’re in trouble.
Modern studio condenser mics have a self-noise of around 15dB - that would get you up to a very satisfactory 85dB, providing the mic preamp in the recording device doesn’t lose some of it on the way in.
Part of the problem, for solo flute recordings, is the lack of “masking effect”. We can perceive sounds (including noise) over 10 octaves. A strong sound can mask noise in the octave it is in, but the significant signals from the flute probably cover only about 3 octaves (say 300-600Hz, 600-1200 Hz and 1200 to 2400 Hz. Above 2400, the harmonics are still audible and important to the sound quality, but will not be strong enough to have much masking effect). So we are listening to 3 octaves of signals and an additional 7 octaves of noise. You can see why it’s important to keep the noise down.
At least the self-noise of a microphone is moderately bland noise, usually reasonably “white” - equal energy per Hz of bandwidth. The input noise of a poorly designed mic preamp is often more “brown” - a lot of low frequency noise. Worst of all though is the noise contributed in computer soundcards by the surrounding digital mayhem. It is broadband (because of the fast rising spikes) and so impossible to filter, but also periodic, giving us something to focus on.
If you are in trouble because of perceivable background noise, you can try setting a lo-cut filter to around 250Hz, a high cut to somewhere between 5 and 10kHz (listen for loss of brightness), and using a downward expander to reduce the background in moments of silence. These are probably available in Audacity or similar packages.
There are a few solutions available for this problem with minidisc recorders (I assume this would work with Flash-based and hard-disk recorders as well): places like Minidisco sell separate pre-amps so you can run your mic signal through the line-in input, which usually gives you significantly better sound than using the mic input:
http://www.minidisco.com/mic-preamps-and-battery-modules.html
The battery modules are useful too…they let you record using the line-in input if you’re dealing with really loud sounds, like recording rock concerts or a room full of bagpipers.
The line-in input seems to give you much better sound quality than the mic input; I’ve recorded near-CD-quality music on my minidisc recorder by using a good condenser mic with my stage mixer and then sending the mixer output through RCA jacks to a miniplug into the line-in jack on the minidisc recorder. The bottleneck is the RCA connection and then you have the loss that occurs through compression in the minidisc recorder. I bet the sound would be better if I could use XLR but then you still have to step down to the miniplug to fit into the minidisc’s line-in jack.
What do you guys think would be the best choice? Go with an Olympus DS-2 digital recorder and attach a nice computer mic to it to record your flute music and then transfer that sound clip to the computer via the usb wire of the Olympus DS-2 or just buy the Samson CO1U mic that Brad is useing? I think if one shops around you will end up paying about the same for either. Does anyone have a sound clip done with the use of the Olympus DS-2? I thought the sound clip that Brad put on the forum useing his Samson mic was very good. I have to say he is a good flute player too. Thanks for any advice.
Scottie
For those looking for a field recording device Amazon has the iRiver iFP-180T at a very competitive price ($50 USD, with a $20 rebate for 128 MB capacity, the 256 MB model is a good bit more money). They are pretty good about returns, so it may be worth a shot.
Remember Brad has a Mac, so you may or may not be able to duplicate his recording quality with your computer. The soundcard does matter, though quite a few people are omitting this piece of information when talking about their setup.
As for the Olympus:
from
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=31519&highlight=olympus
Hi y’all,
For grabbing tunes at workshops and lessons, I’ve upgraded to a new voice recorder from Olympus, Model number is DS-2. I just wanted to pass on the info. It’s a keeper!
At its highest setting (WMA, 128 kbit stereo, 44.1 KHz sample rate) it records about 1 hour, and even the 4 hour setting (32 kbit WMA Mono) it does an excellent job recording music. There are lower quality settings primarily for voice that support up to 22 hours of voice recording.
Here’s a good review, including some sample audio files: http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/18/ds2.html
Has USB-2, includes the docking station, USB-2 cable, headphones, batteries, and software. Like the Sony ICD-ST10/25/MX20 also slows down tunes without changing the pitch. Supports both Mac and PC. Shows up as a standard Mass Storage Class USB device, so you can just drag and drop files from it to the desktop. File format is standard WMA so no need to run any proprietary software, although the supplied application is very good for organizing files.
The built-in speaker is pretty small, so you can’t turn the volume up too much on playback without distortion, but it does have a headphone and plug-in power microphone jack. Recordings at the highest setting using an external Sony stereo “T” mike sound nearly as good as my minidisc and much better than anything I’ve heard come off even the latest generation of Sony voice recorders (which are priced over $240). Battery life is supposed to be 18 hours on two AAAs.
Bestbuy.com has them listed this week for $134.00 (have to add it to your shopping basket to get the reduced price), but you should print out the website page with the online price to get the sale price at your local store. The bestbuy.com website can tell you if they are in-stock at your local store.
Cheers,
Michael