Does anyone have any advice on buying one of these that is high quality but not too expensive (i.e., not $15,000 or some ludicrous price like that)?
My girlfriend plays Boehm flute and is trying to get more into Irish music, and she’s looking into something like this as an alternative to Irish flute. She ideally wants something cylindrical that plays just like a regular Boehm flute, but made out of wood. She also wants open-hole style keys.
My $.02 and take it with a grain of salt because I’m not a Boehm flute player (although I did own one for a while in the distant past, a nice Gemeinhardt with open hole keys).
It seems to me that a wooden Boehm flute from a modern maker would be more about visual aesthetics than anything else, and won’t get her any closer to the reasons why the vast majority of ITM players choose conical bore, simple system flutes. It will be expensive too.
So why not take the less expensive step of getting a wooden Boehm flute headjoint for her current flute? It may or may not give a 'woodier" sound, and would at least partially satisfy the aesthetics of something different for playing ITM.
here you go. https://www.irishflutestore.com/products/abell-boehm-flute-headjoint
Also the Irish Flute Store sometimes sells old wooden Boehm flutes by good makers (Blayne is helpful). Such flutes are also available occasionally in other venues online, so if you watch them you will probably find one.
Note that the Rudall Carte flute listed above is “High Pitch / A=452.” You’d want to check with Blayne at the Irish Flute Store to see if there is enough slide extension to play in A=440, and if that alters the intonation too much.
That’s entirely fair. I doubt that a wooden Boehm flute would sound that much different. Really it’s about aesthetics. We wanted something that looks more traditional, and she wanted a new flute with open holes that’s nicer than her current (metal) student Boehm flute, so we thought, why not a wooden Boehm flute?
But if getting something quality will be too expensive, maybe it would make more sense to get nicer, open-holed metal one.
She’s not that interested in learning to play on a new embouchure hole - plus, I’m skeptical of those wooden heads for Boehm flutes; I don’t think they have taper in the head, do they? A non tapered head on a cylindrical instrument strikes me as a bad idea.
Maybe another option would be to find a conical bore Boehm flute; but I can’t find one of those for sale that isn’t an antique.
I’m skeptical of anything that inexpensive. Why is it that a nice, well-made 8-key Irish flute typically costs significantly more than that? You’d think that the complex nature of the Boehm keywork would make it more expensive than your typical 8-key flute. Anyone have any insights as to why these wooden Boehm flutes tend to be cheaper than their 8-key counterparts?
The Boehms lent themselves to mass production, and they are cylindrical–both mean the maker has less to do and so lower the price. Also supply and demand are playing a role. The makers of the best 8 keys were, after the Boehms came in, still making 8 keys for a long while too and I expect the Boehm flutes they made were very good. My supposition is that the Boehm orchestral flutes back when finger pretty much like they do now. Blayne (at IFS) will answer questions quite honestly and knowledgeably, if you want to know about particular flutes he lists. You can send him messages on the site.
Cyberknight - have you researched the Peter Worrell simple system flute tailored on the Rudall Carte 8 key simple system flute?
http://www.peterworrell.co.uk/pwrc.htm
It plays at modern pitch and the head joint can be swapped with any Boehm headjoint - a wooden Chris Abell flute headjoint and the simple system keywork is intuitive for Boehm players to manage the embouchure. It is unusual in being able to accept a parabolic headjoint provided the tenon is adjusted for diameter fit.
The closed hole wooden Boehms were never the flavour of the century: straddling the hybrid era after open hole simple system and Boehm full metal, they are a great bargain entry if the sounding length and pitch matches. For classical players it will be hard to accept these as the pitch drift at the upper third octave where most ITM does not venture, starts to come apart.
A wooden headjoint is a huge step way from the penetrating metal sound of silver headjoints although yes, just a half step away. For fully cloaked wooden Boehms - Ritterhausen, Lot, Schreiber were at the top of the game…Metzlers, Mollenhauer, Thibouville and a host of English late 19th century flute makers made exemplary wooden Boehm flutes too.There are some average to low A=435Hz German ones floating around which are best avoided.
I’m aware of this sort of thing! And I’d possibly be interested in something like this for myself. But my girlfriend isn’t keen on learning to play her F sharps and C naturals all differently, so she’d much prefer a true Boehm system wooden flute. Thank you for the suggestion, though!
Quite understandable!
This looks promising, even though it has a conical bore: https://www.justflutes.com/shop/product/pre-owned-louis-lot-conical-w-tuning-slide-flute
A wooden Boehm flute by a living maker or firm would be very expensive and would still sound like a Boehm flute. However, there are a number of very, very good trad flute players who play Boehm flutes, tighten their embouchures and get a good Irish sound from them. Listen to Joanie Madden and Lucie Périer. Steph Geremia has done a lesson series for sliver flute players who want to play Irish music. Her normal instruments are wooden 8-key simple system flutes but she gets a fine sound with her Miyazawa silver flute in this lesson series and tells you how to get it. The first lesson is available for free on facebook or youtube:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=667189891502420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6BGz1-UT4
If this lesson is a bit too advanced, start first with the free lesson for wooden non-Boehm flute (watch it anyway for help with the embouchure):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goCd1mEWsWs
Here is an example of Lucie Périer’s playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5PSkgschY
Áine Heslin is another Boehm player of Irish music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Lb9q9e4iA
If she wants to stay with a Boehm flute, then I recommend a silver one. It will be much, much less expensive than a wooden Boehm flute and will have the same sound possibilities. I once asked Lucie Périer what kind of flute she played, and this is what she wrote:
“I had tried a bunch of very expensive sterling silver flutes beforehand, from … to … and …, and none of them suited my needs. … I wanted a sturdy mechanism and a rather “cheap” one. So mine is a “semi-professional” flute, that costs 3000€ and it’s I think the best flute I’ve ever had. I loved the sound instantly and it really handles the ornamentations very well if you take good care of it.” Her flute has the MZ-10 embouchure cut and a regular wall thickness. If I were to get a silver flute to play Irish music, this is what I would buy although I would want a different embouchure cut.
With a Boehm flute, wooden or silver, it takes some care to avoid the tubby sound that these flutes have unless they are played the way Steph and Lucie play it. FWIW, I prefer a simple system wooden flute with an oval embouchure and a conical bore. I like the feel of the air on my fingertips and I think the trad sound is easier to come by. For these, a keyless wooden flute is an inexpensive possibility (keys are not needed for the vast majority of tunes). I don’t think it is difficult to switch between the two fingering systems. Chet
I understand the aesthetic desire to have a wooden flute, and this is not an impossible quest. The problem is that many if not most of the 19th Century Boehm flutes from England will be high-pitch, as in A450, which is half-way from D to Eb. And the good concert pitch flutes from the 20th Century might be expensive; I know next to nothing about that market, I confess.
I think that 19th C French Boehm flutes are not so high pitch and they are more common than the British. I think they are considered quite good flutes, but with a sweeter tone - not the raucous Irish style.
Two other constraints you describe are that she doesn’t want to change her embouchure style, and that she doesn’t want to try other fingerings. The latter is less of a problem than she would think, and the former is very worth pursuing. Tone quality/character is probably the primary reason to look into a wooden flute. Read up on the English wooden flute players of the early 20th Century who are famous for a powerful, rich and wonderful tone; very different from today’s preferred flute style.
And yes, the wooden head joints are an excellent and normal solution if that is your desire. They are of course tuned for proper use on a Boehm flute.
In any case look at the Old Flutes web page:
http://www.oldflutes.com/boehm.htm
Yes, they do have a taper in the head. At least they do if the maker knows what they are about 
. I’ve made head joints of various types for Boehm flutes, and with the exception of really off-label things like a shakuhachi-style head joint, they all feature the parabolic taper (Chris Abell’s head joint undoubtedly has the taper). To get a more ITM flavor, I gather that the oval embouchure cut helps. I’m not a Boehm flute player, so all of my knowledge on this comes second hand from player feedback. But Boehm flute players that I’ve known don’t seem to have too much difficulty adapting to an oval embouchure, though it does seem to require a more focused air stream.
I think that wood or ebonite (which I often used) do give a slightly different nuance than metal, but much less than most players would imagine. I’ve witnessed some blind testing of head joints, and when the listener doesn’t know what material is being used, they cannot hear the difference. But this is not true of the the player, who can feel the difference. And there is the aesthetic aspect of course.
From listening to and talking to trad-playing Boehm flute players over the years I have a suspicion that people who chose wooden flutes and wooden head joints are people who want a woody sound and that those wthl metal flutes don’t want to sound woody or not enough to change flute or head joint. [continued in next post]
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So I suspect I could be mainly hearing the difference between wooden boehm flute players and metal boehm flute players rather than the between the wooden flutes and metal flutes. Though when a borrowed a metal boehm flute for a while (I play simple system) what came out had a ‘metal tube’ sound.
Dunno David.
In concerts every audience member who happens to like or comment about the music we make, comments on how refreshing it is to hear a wooden flute over the common garden silver metal typewriter Boehm flute.
As a wooden flute player, I feel the difference: the overtones reverberate and it feels more connecting and soothing. The metal Boehm is fine, if not overly loud, penetrating, unsubtle and lacking in softness.
In any case, the OP is going to struggle to find an open hole Boehm layout wooden flute for less than the order of $£thousands. It is pretty much a grail flute for most players into the Boehm simplicity of layout for contemporary music. The closest (cheapest) call I can think of will be a Rudall Carte Rockstro with the optional open/closed holes and only a few of these I’ve come across play at A=440Hz. Then again, the challenges of open Gs, inline keys and all the other quirks of the 19th century will make it more likely that a custom order is the only option to satisfy.
One thing to be careful of: there are a lot of Chinese made wooden Boehm flutes out there at attractive prices. I don’t think they’re as bad as the dreaded Pakistani “Irish” firewood flutes, but you get what you pay for.
I’ve been seeing ads for Chinese-made wooden Boehm flutes for prices around $800-$1000. It makes you wonder, if they can make metal Boehm flutes and sell them for $300, why does a wooden Boehm flute have to cost $15,000?
There were student-grade wood Boehm flutes made in France in the 1920s. One of them came up on Craigslist here a few months ago for around $700, but I did not have a chance to check it out. Possibly similar instruments were made in other places at that time as well.
I’m curious about those Chinese flutes. A few brick-and-mortar music shops seem to sell them. (There was one in LA, if anyone in LA is willing to do an investigation.) I haven’t seen any credible reviews of them. But if a Chinese factory can make clarinets, why not flutes? It’s possible they could be passable and not a scam. I’d just like to see more independent evaluations.
However, I’ve also seen people saying that what is being advertised as Yamaha clarinets online are actually counterfeits. No serial number, etc. So it’s a jungle out there.
I’ve played a wooden Boehm flute, and it sounds much more like a metal Boehm flute than it does a conical-bore flute. So for playing ITM, you might as well just use a metal one and focus on getting the right tone, following the models that other people have mentioned.
I’m curious about those Chinese flutes. A few brick-and-mortar music shops seem to sell them. (There was one in LA, if anyone in LA is willing to do an investigation.) I haven’t seen any credible reviews of them. But if a Chinese factory can make clarinets, why not flutes? It’s possible they could be passable and not a scam. I’d just like to see more independent evaluations.
With Chinese instruments you might get a good one that plays well but the issues are fit and finish, reliability of the mechanism, ability to stay in regulation, etc. If you get one that’s out of adjustment then you can plan on spending some money with a tech to get it playing well. I have a couple of Chinese made saxophones and they play OK but I’ve had to spend some money with my tech to get them that way. On my soprano sax, one of the necks came unsoldered from the connector and the pearl fell off of the G sharp key touch and was lost so I had to get that repaired. It only cost about 30 bucks but if issues like that keep popping up then it adds up. Think about how many keys and pads are on a Boehm flute. $700-$1000 is a lot of money to spend if you have to keep spending money in the long run to keep it playing right.