It’s interesting that in the present day US the flute is “coded” as a woman’s instrument. In high school and college bands flute is “girly.” pb+j
Aye interesting, as in Ireland the flute is also a term for the penis. Perchance a phallic symbolism young Americans are unaware of. As Peter mentioned both the pipes and flute were not considered ladylike or “girly” instruments at all. I’d hesitate though in the midst of a session before calling Patsy Hanly, Harry Bradley or Conal O’Grada “girly”
The flute was mostly seen in “girly” Classical orchestras, almost never in pop music with a few exceptions like Ian Anderson with Jethro Tull. It’s still not a very high profile instrument in the US outside of Classical music and marching bands. Steve.
But there are many well known male jazz musicians who play the flute in the US such Eric Dolphy, Sam Rivers, Charles Lloyd, Joe Farrell, Herbie Mann, Yusef Lateef, Dave Valentin, Jerome Richardson, Roland Kirk, Frank Wess, Hubert Laws …
From Steampacket: “But there are many well known male jazz musicians who play the flute in the US such Eric Dolphy, Sam Rivers, Charles Lloyd, Joe Farrell, Herbie Mann, Yusef Lateef, Dave Valentin, Jerome Richardson, Roland Kirk, Frank Wess, Hubert Laws …”
Funny enough, I was inspired by a German TV series to learn the (boehm) flute which feautured a girl as lead character who played the flute. This whole “girly” thing with flutes might be the same in Germany but IMO only weak-minded characters are influenced by that. And only up to a certain age.
Maybe well known to the hardcore jazz crowd, but certainly not to grade school kids and the vast majority of their parents at the time when kids are choosing, or being steered towards which instrument to play. Most kids here will never have even seen a jazz band prior to learning to play an instrument, and even if they did, it’s unlikely they’d see a jazz band with a flute player.
Maybe well known to the hardcore jazz crowd, but certainly not to grade school kids and the vast majority of their parents at the time when kids are choosing, or being steered towards which instrument to play. Most kids here will never have even seen a jazz band prior to learning to play an instrument, and even if they did, it’s unlikely they’d see a jazz band with a flute player. Loren
We’re getting off track now. Who cares about American grade school kids and their parents, and their ignorance of an American art form. The original poster’s query was regarding possible differences in the way female and male flute players play and sound in Irish traditional music and if gender was an issue or not.
You stated there were many well know male jazz flute players. In response I merely pointed out that jazz flute players, male or female, would not actually be well known to most kids or even their parents. Here and likely elsewhere.
You stated there were many well know male jazz flute players. In response I merely pointed out that jazz flute players, male or female, would not actually be well known to most kids or even their parents. Here and likely elsewhere.
Loren
Yes, I was responding to Steve’s claim that “It’s still not a very high profile instrument in the US outside of Classical music and marching bands”.
Right, and so we’re wondering if others’ perception reflects realities, or just biases.
Katharine
Yes Also if a person/musician plays Irish traditional music well on the flute, what does it matter if that person/musician is female or male? I don’t think that male flute players are the default benchmark these days.
Steve wrote that Aoife seems to have said that some female flute players don’t want to play/sound like male flute players. Perhaps this just indicates that they would rather chose a female flute player as a roll model instead of a male flute player?
There are so many female flute players who are great, inspiring musicians, so no shortage of roll models.
An afterthought. I’ve just returned from a long walk in -13 centigrade, listening to Catherine McEvoy’s The home ruler. I hear nothing “girly”, or feminine, or, for that matter nowt, manly, or masculine about the flute playing at all. Just a brilliant musician playing Irish traditional music on the flute with great technical ability, feeling, and tone.
So prehaps Aoife Granville meant that female flute players just play the flute as best as they can and don’t try to sound like men as there is no male “flute sound”. I’m inspired by flute players such as Catherine McEvoy, because they are great flute players.
Possibly. There’s a definite validity in wanting to support minority players. It could also indicate that they don’t want to be accused of trying to be male flute players; or that they don’t want to appear to be saying that “playing like a girl” is a negative thing, so they don’t want to try not to play in a way stereotypically seen as “female.” (Yeah, everything comes with societal baggage…)
Also if a person/musician plays Irish traditional music well on the flute, what does it matter if that person/musician is female or male? I don’t think that male flute players are the default benchmark these days.