Why must I be so indecisive...

Uilleann Pipes
1

So, I really badly want to learn the uilleann pipes, but I’ve also found an equal liking for the Scottish small pipes, and I want to learn both of them.

I have a friend who I’ll be buying a practice set (UP) from when I get the money, but now I’m not sure if I will yet or not…

Unlike most people, the regulators and drones and stuff isn’t what makes me have second thoughts about the pipes, it’s the fingerings and all the different ones for every note.

I pretty much know the basic scale (so as not to sound TOO horrible when I start… and to save some time), but I realize how hard it’ll be, at least for me, to get a tune out of them.

I still want to learn both, but I’m not sure which one to go with first. I know they both take a lot of money, time, and effort.

Who I plan to learn the U pipes from is Matt Willis (of the Killdares), and I have no idea who (in my state, or country, at least) teaches the SSP, or how to go about learning them.

I hope I’ve actually made a point and not rambled…
Can anybody help me with all of this?

God bless, and slainte,

Joseph Carmichael

2

If you’re serious about the UP’s then learning the SSp at the same time will inhibit your learning. Spend a few years on the Uilleann Pipes and at some time in the future pick up on the small pipes. If you’re going to be good at Uilleann pipes it takes a real devotion. If you do both I would bet that both will suffer. You’ll need to immerse yourself in practice to make the chanter sound the correct octaves, just the right blips, keep the staccatto sound. Its more than you think. Welcome to our hell!

3

I agree that it’s probably counterproductive to attempt to learn uilleann pipes and Scottish pipes at the same time. They are very different. The hand position on the upper hand is different. The fingerings are different. The ornaments are different. The entire approach to bag pressure control is different.
(Now I’m assuming that when you are talking about learning SSP’s you mean learning the traditional Scottish style and technique. Of course you could play SSP’s using a homemade semi-whistle technique also, as some have done. SSP’s, as opposed to the actual Highland pipes and the so-called Border pipes, aren’t finicky at all about exactly which fingerings are used and you can finger them pretty much any way you want and still get an in-tune scale. But for argument’s sake let’s assume that you will want to learn the actual Scottish piping style, its gracenotes and grips and birls and taorluaths and doublings etc etc.)
So I would go with one or the other, perhaps with the uilleann pipes if you already play whistle.
I’ve had students attempt to learn Scottish pipes and uilleann pipes at the same time and they end up learning neither very well. The uilleann pipes are difficult enough to learn without the added complications of learning the Scottish pipes simultaneously.

4

I was talking to a fiddle player from Ireland and he was commenting about how Americans try and play everything. They show up at sessions with like 10 instruments and there’s barley enough room to sit in a circle because of all the instrument cases.

Marry yourself with one instrument, everything else is a distraction.
I grew up playing piano and guitar. No Longer. Pipes baby, Pipes!

5

This will probably get me slagged stupid here, but I would say learn the SSP first.

This is based on my observances at the Glasgow Pipers club, in that, those pipers moving from the border/small pipes onto uilleann pick the basics of playing UP much faster than those coming from flute and whistle. (a couple of them went from what is the scale, to playing a half set relatively competently in a matter of weeks)

David

6

It’s not that easy to swap pipes. I spent five minutes on someone else’s set of borders (for a laugh) and utterly failed to do anything useful with it. They are completely different instruments.

7

Quick show of hands - are uilleann pipes the greatest of all the pipes?

There.

That should settle it for you. This unbiased group of gentlemen and gentlewomen should convince you that pipes of the Irish persuasion are the way to go.

8

Sad, isn’t it. That said, I’m actually thinking of pursuring the bodhrán. And it’s not like I’d have to bring one, with so many to borrow, right? :wink:

I mentioned this to a bodhrán player that I habitually give major grief to; her jaw dropped, and she asked, “Why would you do that???” “To spite myself,” I replied. Heh.

9

I don’t plan on learning both at the same time, I’m just not sure which one to go with first.

10

I unfortunately have become like that, but what can I say, they all seem interesting… already playing whistle, recorder, flute, and bodhran… now I want to go to UP and SSP… maybe even bouzouki :boggle:

11

Surprisingly, I don’t know too much about Paddy Keenan ( :astonished: ) but some things I have heard is some kind of open-style fingerings… anybody know much about that? I’m confused.

In response to a pm I got: “Pick ONE and stick with it for at least 10 years.”, the guy I’ll be buying the practice set from has only played the pipes for 5 years and is already up there with some of the best.

If I went with the smallpipes first, do you learn those like the GHB? Starting with the practice chanter? Right now I seem to be leaning more towards the UP again, but I know I’ll still be going back and forth in my head.

12

Hey JSCWhistler…the pills for your A.D.D. medicine is on top of the frig…TAKE SOME !

13

Sorry, I just have a lot of questions. :blush:

14

aww… that was really mean :frowning: . he’s just askin questions… hehe yer the one who needs happy pills…

anyway, my comment on this whole thing is that I think you should get the instrument which best suits which style music you like best. So if you’re into traditional irish, go for Uilleann for sure… because I’ve honestly never…ever… seen any small-pipes at a traditional session before, and I’ve been to quite a few… well, I guess in america you might see them more, but anyway. If you’re more into americanized celtic stuff than sure I’d say go for the small-pipes, but never both :stuck_out_tongue:

(personally, I’d say the uilleann pipes :slight_smile: cause you know deep inside that you won’t go to heaven if you don’t learn how to play them… :smiling_imp: )

15

JSCWhistler - The uilleann pipes are a demanding instrument to learn. You’ll frequently see adverts on eBay and elsewhere in which sellers say “I don’t have the time to dedicate to this instrument”. This is entirely true.

If you want to avoid the hassle of buying a set of pipes and then trying to sell them 12 months later having completely failed to learn to play them, either give up all of your other instruments (at least for the first few years) and concentrate entirely on uilleann pipes OR forget about uilleann pipes altogether.

I don’t play the Scottish smallpipes, so I can’t offer you an opinion on whether it is an alternative to uilleann pipes. However, I will say that you should not try to learn SSP at the same time as learning UPs.

16

As far as time goes, I have plenty of time, it’s more how much time I’m willing to dedicate to whichever I learn. Right now, I’m still leaning towards the uilleann pipes (something about them just keeps a hold on you).

I haven’t really mastered the whistle, or any of the other instruments, and I doubt I will until I’m dead, but I’ve got the rest pretty well down where I can dedicate more time to the pipes.

17

I pretty much like it all, from the Chieftains to Lunasa, which are almost polar opposites. I really like the combination of UP and SSP, probably because of Morrison and McGoldrick, and the SSP seem a little more rare than the UP.

In the end, I’d still like to learn both.

18

I think the most important first step is to find a teacher. The pipes are hard to learn in isolation. It’s not like the whistle where you can buy some books and watch some internet videos. There is just too much going on and it’s too easy to get bad habits early on. Visit a tionól if you can to see pipes and pipers. Start listening to lots of piping music. The Drones and the Chanters series is great. Don’t worry about styles like open and tight early on, just listen to the music.

There are plenty of lists of great modern pipers on the board. Spend some money and get some CD’s or spend some time online looking at the various videos clubs have posted. Ours (gnipc.org), socal and many others have some great pipers to watch.

19

Just to try and clarify a few little things:

Big Davy, I would assume that the pipers you saw at the Glasgow Pipers Club who play SSP or Border Pipes have generally extensive experience in the world of SSP/BP/GHB playing. Coming from many years of playing those instruments definitely shortens the learning curve to picking up the basics of playing uilleann pipes. However, picking up uilleann pipes and SSP at the same time or within a year of eachother would probably not do anybody any good.

Also, while I don’t wish to be insulting, from my experience, I’ve very rarely met SSP players not coming from GHB experience (e.g., just buying a set of SSP and trying to learn them first) that were able to play at all well. I’m sure some such people do exist, though I’d bet they’re few and far between.

Take a step back and realize that both of these instruments are very expensive and require a lot of commitment to play them well. Do not assume that SSP would be easier because they only have one octave. Getting the bag pressure right can be tough, and if you want to play with Highland pipe fingering (i.e., like what you saw Fred Morrison doing), then I personally think that GHB ornamentation is every bit as difficult as anything you’ll encounter on uilleann pipes, if not more so.

If you’re going to choose one, you have two choices that I would suggest.:

1.) Find yourself a good GHB teacher and start taking lessons on the practice chanter. You may not have any wish to eventually play GHB, but this is the best way to start and also a good way to see if you might like to play this music with minimal investment. After about 5 years of playing SSP and/or GHB with regular lessons on one or both, see how you feel about trying uilleann pipes.

2.) Find yourself an experienced uilleann pipes teacher that you’d be able to connect with somewhat regularly (even if it’s someone a bit far away that you’d only be able to see every few months). Get a practice set. Try it for a year, and if you like what you’re doing, keep at it. When your teacher thinks you’re ready, get some drones. After a few years, consider if you’d still like to try SSP and if yes, get a set and find another SSP player to connect with and show you how to do the basics.

If you eventually want to play pipes in sessions, uilleann pipes are far more versatile–mostly because there are very few sessions in the US where you’re likely to find a lot of people that play many Scottish tunes, and only a small number of Irish tunes fit on the SSP without significant alteration.

Good luck with whatever you decide to try.

20

I see that you would get Matt Willis for a teacher of UPS.He also teaches the GHBs so it might be logical if you contacted him and he might be able to give you some advice as to which one to play.