I think it’s kind of a lost cause to take an issue like personal taste, if that’s what it is (and/or the sociological mythmaking that goes with these things) and discuss it, even with intellect, on a public forum such as this. You should check out the thread in the Flute Forum on the subject of wondering why male fluteplayers tend to be thought of as pansies, at least in the States and especially by nonmusicians. All attempts at intellectual analysis, while earnest, wound up drowned in confusions and, in this case, merriment. And nothing got done.
I mean, for example despite the fact that my fascination for Irish traditional music is endless, I can’t abide corned beef and cabbage (yes, I know that that’s a Yank-Irish dish). We could analyse that.
I suppose there are psychologists who might offer a yonic vs. phallic symbolism type argument to support your data and implied assumption, but I really don’t want to get involved in this one… I suspect that the next time I check this site this thread will be locked.
I have to respectfully disagree that the fiddle or violin is more expressive then the uilleann pipes. Expression is of course in the hands of the player, but given that, I still feel the pipes win this match no contest. That’s not putting down the fiddle either, it’s a great instrument, but I believe the pipes have a little more to offer in the realm of expression.
My honest opinon (and experience for that matter) about lesser women pipers is that perhaps most of them are not as stubborn or obsessed with taking on the uilleann pipes like guys are. That is to say if they have a positive interest or some attraction to the pipes. Of the women who I have talked to about the pipes, they usually just say “I could never do that”, or “It must take you a long time to do that”, or “isn’t the whistle simpler?” whatever the case may be.
Whatever the case is, women who love and play uilleann pipes is a coooooool thing if you know what I mean. There should be more women playing them!
Rory, in your first post you wrote, “Could it be that the pipes are just [too] much of a physical instrument to play.” Is that you not being sexist and using your intellect?
Eric, maybe it’s the type of women you talk to or the way you talk about the pipes to women. I’ve only EVER had men say that to me about the pipes.
The mechanics of the whole mess are what put me off initially. Reedmaking, so many moving parts, tools required, woodworking and math-ey stuff, etc. Piping sort of seemed the purview of persnickety men with proper workshops, or guys who like to work on cars.
“I suppose there are psychologists who might offer a yonic vs. phallic symbolism type argument to support your data and implied assumption, but I really don’t want to get involved in this one… I suspect that the next time I check this site this thread will be locked.”
By that logic there should be a massive preponderance of female bodhran, or even lambeg, players.
Not at all. It all depends on how you go about it. Unfortunately on public forums the tendency for that subject’s path is so often to sink quickly and with little sense of style into the baldfacedly vulgar - and it takes only one Beavis or Butthead to set that boat a-sailing - or a few sorts start feasting on each others’ entrails with ghastly relish, neither of which cases are acceptable here, and that is hardly news, now, is it. Don’t blame ME.
I believe it’s the women who I talk to. I don’t believe it’s how I talk to them (or anybody else for that matter) about the pipes. I will let them know straight up that learning the pipes is not easy, and if you want to become good at them takes a lot of hard work, but that it Can be done. I don’t sugar coat things, but at the same time I still maintain a welcoming attitude when disussing the pipes, I do so because I love them.
For what it’s worth, I have had one woman approach me who really badly wants to learn the uilleann pipes, and she just tells me all the time how much she loves them, and I told her the difficulties, some of which are even compounded by where I live, and the resources available here, but she didn’t care at all, she still wants to play. Which brings a smile to me, since I so rarely see that in a young woman.
I don’t think it’s that. Reedmaking, while a hassle (I admit – I don’t do it), is probably less complicated and persnickety than “traditionally” feminine pursuits such as weaving or embroidery. There are also plenty of other women involved in craftswomen-type professions. For example, most of the saddle makers I know are female.
You know, it’s really something how even on a forum where you can’t get any nerdier than uilleann pipes…oh, hell. Sure. Yeah, why not. The instrument hasn’t moved out out the 19th century, essentially, after all.
Well, I can only speak for this woman, of course. But the gouges and calipers and affiliated stuff were off-putting to me at first (although now that I’ve started reedmaking, I’m actually enjoying destroying tube after tube of innocent cane – so far, at least); they were sort of instruments of the black arts.
Then again, I’m old enough to not have much exposure to workshops. When I was in school (1970s), it was assumed girls would take Home Ec and boys would take shop. It was a big deal to get into shop, and not many girls wanted the hassle of, or attention gained from, bucking the system – I assume those would be the same reasons guys didn’t usually take Home Ec. They had shop, we didn’t. So, like I said in the flute thread, I think some of it’s just cultural mores as promulgated by public education.
Finally, I’ll admit to a pretty regular twinge – and again, I think this has to do with my age and when I was brought up – of feeling unladylike when I start heaving away. I think younger women don’t have this baggage, so I expect we’ll see more women pipers eventually.
… Oh yeah, and the bag and bellows can be kinda hard on the arms, especially at first.
Interesting about the saddle makers – of the 8 or 9 I’ve known over the years, only one’s a woman. Tack’s a major boys’ club here in my part of Kentucky – where do you live?
Trust the mods to bring this topic down.Heres another topic,but maybe for the pub.Why are forums plagued by over reaction,misunderstanding and super-sensitivity.If I was to say that most coal miners are men because its a phyically demanding job,would it be fair to call me a sexist? Judging by some of the attitudes so far the answer would probably be yes.
Not really a girl-thing, if it’s any consolation. Had a little spell eating aspirin, myself; I may be no hulk, but I’m not altogether a wisp, either. Plus that black-and-blue mark on my bellows hip…not attractive.
