Hey all-
I posted this on my board in the pipes forum, but since there aren’t a lot of pipers there (yet) I thought I better ask here as well.
How hard is the transition to playing uillean as well as whistles and simple system flutes?
Do you have to get a complete set of pipes, or can a practice chanter (Whatever THAT is 
) be used?
What am I letting myself in for if I start to go down this road…? 
Aodhan
Take a look at some of the other threads on this same topic.
Scottish pipers begin with a “practice chanter”, an instrument designed to teach them the scale, a few tunes, and build up their lung power. Some retailers sell an uilleann practice chanter that has something like the uilleann pipes scale, but it’s a waste of money in my opinion.
Uillean pipers start with the whistle or flute and then progress to a bag, bellows, and chanter. You have to learn to play the bag and bellows before you do anything else, and this can be quite difficult at first, taking a considerable amount of time to develop the necessary strength and coordination.
[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2003-02-28 12:20 ]
On 2003-02-28 12:18, Pat Cannady wrote:
Take a look at some of the other threads on this same topic.Scottish pipers begin with a “practice chanter”, an instrument designed to teach them the scale, a few tunes, and build up their lung power. Some retailers sell an uilleann practice chanter that has something like the uilleann pipes scale, but it’s a waste of money in my opinion.
Uillean pipers start with the whistle or flute and then progress to a bag, bellows, and chanter. You have to learn to play the bag and bellows before you do anything else, and this can be quite difficult at first, taking a considerable amount of time to develop the necessary strength and coordination.
[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2003-02-28 12:20 ]
I’ll do a search (Should have done that first…
Is there a length of time I should play the whistle first? I am very comfortable reading music, and am just starting to learn cuts, taps, rolls, etc. on the whistle/flute.
Aodhan
On 2003-02-28 12:18, Pat Cannady wrote:
“Uillean pipers start with the whistle or flute and then progress to a bag, bellows, and chanter. You have to learn to play the bag and bellows before you do anything else, and this can be quite difficult at first, taking a considerable amount of time to develop the necessary strength and coordination.”[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2003-02-28 12:20 ]
Pat who said that Uilleann Pipers start on the flute or whistle?I didn’t nor did many of my fellow pipers.As for the STRENGTH bit,what is that all about?
I don’t think my 10year old student has extra strength or whatever.If you are having to squeeze too hard then there is something wrang with your set.
As for time it is relevent to how much practice.Some players just sail into it others struggle .
All in all I think we should try and promote the instrument with positive messages and encourage folk to pick up and play.
Slan go foill
Liam
There’s no prescribed amount of time, BUT
being able to play a diverse repertoire of dance tunes from the different genres with appropriate rhythm, tempo, and ornamentation on the whistle or the flute would be helpful for learning to play the pipes well.
An emphasis on jigs and hornpipes will be a great help, especially hornpipes. They will teach you a lot about articulation, phrasing, and playing tunes with challenging melodic shapes.
On 2003-02-28 12:52, Aodhan wrote:
…Is there a length of time I should play the whistle first? …
Aodhan
Yeah, the length of time it takes to get your mits on a practice set
-Larry Dunn
On 2003-02-28 13:38, Uilliam wrote:
On 2003-02-28 12:18, Pat Cannady wrote:
“Uillean pipers start with the whistle or flute and then progress to a bag, bellows, and chanter. You have to learn to play the bag and bellows before you do anything else, and this can be quite difficult at first, taking a considerable amount of time to develop the necessary strength and coordination.”[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2003-02-28 12:20 ]
Pat who said that Uilleann Pipers start on the flute or whistle?I didn’t nor did many of my fellow pipers.As for the STRENGTH bit,what is that all about?
I don’t think my 10year old student has extra strength or whatever.If you are having to squeeze too hard then there is something wrang with your set.
As for time it is relevent to how much practice.Some players just sail into it others struggle .
All in all I think we should try and promote the instrument with positive messages and encourage folk to pick up and play.
Slan go foill
Liam
I’m not trying to start a flame war, and I’m not picking on Aodhan. I do believe very strongly that you have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. I started on the whistle and lots of players of any irish trad instrument, not just pipes, started on the whistle. I played whistle for years before I got my pipes, and I’m glad that I did-it made life easier as far as learning pipes was concerned. ITM and pipes combine to make a steeper learning curve for the beginner. You may disagree, that’s fine, but I stand by this opinion.
On 2003-02-28 14:13, No E wrote:
On 2003-02-28 12:52, Aodhan wrote:
…Is there a length of time I should play the whistle first? …
AodhanYeah, the length of time it takes to get your mits on a practice set >
-Larry Dunn
Lol…well, since I am still paying for the flute I just got, that may be a few months down the road.
Re: Pat’s post just above yours, I seem to find hornpipe rhythm just about the easiest for me. Not surprising, when I dance, I find I like the hornpipe(s) the best as well.
It’s an odd thing really. Dancers (Most anyway) prefer one or the other (Treble Jigs vs. Hornpipes, both are hardshoe dances.) Dancers that “get” the treble jig timing easily often have a hard time with the hornpipe, and vicie versey. Anyone notice that as far as playing?
Aodhan
Hi Folks,
The first practice set I tried belonged to a guy who was just learning the pipes but who is a very good flute player, at that stage I hadn’t started on the flute, he told me to try the flute first. When I eventually got organised to get a practice set and someone to teach me he asked me if I played any other instruments, I told him that I played whistle and was learning flute, he said to keep at the whistle and forget the flute!! Goes without saying that as I had to wait for the pipes I kept playing the flute anyway 
I suppose it depends on what you want ultimatly. My practice time is mainly spent on the pipes now.
Cheers, Mac
Here’s what I recently wrote to a fellow whistle player who asked how difficult it would be to transition from the whistle to the pipes:
Hi Mick,
My advise, is to run screaming for the hills…
No seriously, I had idea what I was in for when I got into the pipes… One of the local players had a Walsh shuttle pipe that he used in sessions. It’s a mouth blown small pipe in the key of A with two drones, thought it was pretty cool, so I got one, took Highland lessons for a year (only on the chanter, never got to play a real set), and got to where I could play a few tunes on the shuttle pipe.
At that point, I felt like I had to choose between continuing on with the scottish pipes or cutting over to the Uilleann since I sort of thought I had at least the minimal skills required. So, I sold the set of shuttle pipes and got a full set of (MAKERS NAME OMMITTED TO AVOID A FIRESTORM) Uilleann pipes off of eBay for about $3500.00. Bottom line, they were really not very good pipes, but as a result, I had to learn to make chanter reeds, and found Patrick D’Arcy and the Southern California Uilleann Piper’s club. Once I had the opportunity to play some good sets, I got rid of the (MAKERS NAME OMMITTED) pipes and bought a beautiful half set made by Kirk Lynch. His instruments are absolutely fantastic, play well, are in tune, reeds are stable and the sets are extremely well built. I have two chanters of his, also a second bag and bellows made by Seth Gallagher that I use when I don’t want to bring along the drones, for example, in a pub setting where they might get knocked around.
Unfortunately, if you don’t have a lot of other players around, particularly good ones, its nearly impossible to know if a set is any good, or how to fix the problems that can come up. There are so many things that go wrong, or are messed up on sets that I’ve seen. We see leaking bags, leaking bellows, bad reeds, out of tune chanters, sets that aren’t setup to fit players. And generally, newer players think that a set of pipes should be like a trumpet you buy from the store, i.e. that the instrument is perfect and that any problems they have are their fault. So often the sets are unplayable, and I’ve seen cases where people have played screwed up sets for over a year before we were able to help them out and make them right. They just don’t know. We fix the sets, and then they start making some progress.
Its still a pretty tough instrument to play even descently well. Every note has a different pressure to play in tune, you have to adapt your playing to the vagaries of reeds and humidity, some days its best to just leave them in the case and practice whistle instead.
So…
If you still want to get into this crazy instrument, here’s my advise:
Kirk Lynch
Seth Gallagher
Geoff Wolff
Charles Roberts
Bruce Childress
Ray Sloan
You’re looking at $700-$1200 for a practice set, (bellows, bag, chanter). $1800-2500 for a half set (adds the three drones), and upwards of $3500-$5000 for a full set with three drones and three regulators. Anything you spend on a good set you’ll easily get back if you decide you can’t play the instrument and need to sell it. There is a huge shortage of good sets these days and they generally sell for high prices and very quickly.
All of the skills you have from whistle/flute transfer over, just at a somewhat more “intense” level with more variety of ornamentation and variations in timbre. It’s a very satisfying instrument to play when it all comes together and the weather is right for the reeds (as it is right now in San Diego).
If you get a chance and want more info, click on the Uilleann Pipes link on my Irish Music page. That will take you to Patrick D’Arcy’s Uilleann Obsession page. There, you’ll find an amazing amount of info on the instrument.
Good luck!
Michael
[ This Message was edited by: eskin on 2003-02-28 16:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: eskin on 2003-02-28 16:42 ]
Michael, a very direct and precise opening letter to a person interested in starting pipes.
Is this letter this part of your website?
Hi Tony,
I should add it…
Michael
Yeah, it’s perfect.
Can we have permission to direct new or wannabe pipers to your webpage then?
Please feel free to copy my message and send it to anyone you like… please just credit me and the website:
Cheers,
Michael
As far as “transitioning” to the Uilleann pipes is concerned, I can only speak from my own experience. I was an accomplished pianist and organist and decided one day to get a set of pipes and “learn” them. I listened to the music, went to tionols and talked, posted messages, and learned from those that had been there before me. I believe that there are no “previous qualifications” that can assist a would-be piper, other than a love for the music and the instrument. While knowing an instrument such as the Irish Flute may help, it is not a requirement, as I hear so often on here. This process has been going on for me for many years and I don’t think I am too far behind the curve. I’m half Irish, half French and half foolish, so I am doing just fine! Work hard and have open mind - you’ll do fine!
While not a requirement, it sure makes things a lot easier to already be proficient on the flute and/or whistle…
In our SoCal club we get new players who:
I have to admire their persistance, because eventually, they can get out a few tunes, but its been my experience that it takes them about 10x the time as players who have some experience with playing trad Irish on other wind instruments.
As for me, I always learn my tunes on the whistle first, then put them on the flute and pipes, doing instrument appropriate changes and ornamentation. Works for me… I also put piping ornaments on the flute and whistle, figure if Matt Malloy can do it, why can’t I.
Cheers,
Michael
http://www.michaeleskin.com
Well my boy, I have just done what you are asking about. Here is my 2 cents, plus 1.37 for state and federal taxes.
I have played the whistle for around 4 years. For Christmas I ordered a set of David Daye’s Penny-Chanter Practice pipes.
Of course I’ve only been playing 2 month… whadda I know.
We Be Ch’Uilleann
Tim
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On 2003-02-28 12:18, Pat Cannady wrote:
“I’m not trying to start a flame war, and I’m not picking on Aodhan.”
Pat nor I dear boy,I am sticking to my New Year Resolution …
Slan go foill
Liam
Page 7 of the Armagh Pipers Club Tutor on Uillean Pipes
“It also makes the beginner think in terms of piping and avoids the mistake of translating tin-whistle or flute- playing into pipe-playing”
Good enough for me.
I had two flute playing students on the pipes one is doing very well the other gave up. :roll:
Slan go foill
Uilliam
have a listen to michael mcgoldrick on his debut album, Morning Rory - just the one track is piping i think, Jenny Picking Cockles and The Earl’s Chair - basically a very accomplished flute player playing the chanter in a fluid flute-derived style- some people complained that it wasn’t really piping at all because of the absence of piping-specific ornamentation - all the same it’s very impressive playing from somebody who was at the time pretty much a newcomer to the pipes