okay…here is something I stumbled across lately when I was playing tunes.
what do you do when you have a tune like “the flagstone of memories” from vincent broderick where sometimes it goes bddd how do you play that???
I have learned to play mostly legato so what are the options with the fingerings?
greetings
berti
Just post the question on C&F, so that people can argue about it endlessly…
I personally would either tongue them, or cran. That’s what I would do.
how do you cran?
berti
You could start with a simple double cut.
KFG
On the kerrywebsite www.kerrywhistles.com Phil shows how to cran in one of his tutorials (I think it’s no 4), which are very good for beginners on the Low D.
Go to “movies” and then “tutorials”.
is it correct too, if I do two cuts, say, if the music is bddd then I could play, bd then cut f# and e? like a long roll?
berti
It is probably more appropriate (and practical) not to cran that bottom D on the flute or the whistle but play a triplet eg BD (3DED or BD (3FED
hi peter
sounds interesting but can you please elaborate as I don’t understand abc language yet 
a step by step thingy would be nice …if you don’t mind.
greetings
berti
How simple do you want it? You write bddd, I would write BDDD and BD (3DED to indicate that where you write two Ds I play a triplet.
A favorite. I generally cut the second d and tongue the third on those sections (second bar of each of the first two lines).
Philo
Usually I cran, but often I also use some breathing/tounging technique and naturally ingrained rhythm to play something like a doted quarter note, an eighth note and quarter note. (I know that’s three beats. If you want to use this technique within 1&1/2 beats divide everything by 2). I’d tongue the 1st note playing it mildly staccato, and kind of trill the following notes. This technique works well on any three of the same notes and takes away the monotony of constant rolls and crans. It also gives the player a chance to breath between the first and second notes and it sounds “very Irish.” Sorry it’s not so easy to describe in writing.
I would go B Dee-dilly-dee.
(Nothing like nice technical input.)
I’m still new to ornamentation, but I would cut the second D. The cran sounds nice. If I could play that well, I would do that.
I’d likely cran there too, or else play BD{G}ED (cutting between the first D and the E). Alternatively, by way of a variation I might roll the B and play one D: ~B3D instead of BDDD or B~D3. Or throw the whole lick out and do something different, like BdBG.
I like this way too. I picked up the sound from the L.E. McCullough tutor, and it’s
grown on me. I don’t know the particular tune ‘flagstone of memories’, but I used
d + ded triplet in parts of cup of tea and bucks of oranmore.
Step by step, it’d be
B ( xoo ooo ) ( 1/8th note )
D ( xxx xxx ) ( 1/8th note )
cut ( xox xxx )
D ( xxx xxx ) ( Triplet-speed - 1/3rd of a quarter note)
E ( xxx xxo ) ( Triplet-speed )
D ( xxx xxx ) ( Triplet-speed )
You can, of course, put a note-triplet into most positions where you might use a
long roll, if you’d like. I use an A 3(AGA) in some places, but they do have a tendency
to turn into rolls at a certain speed.
double or triple tonguing would work too, and you could certainly double-cut, or
cran.
The triplest are not played even at 1/3 of a quarter note (as they are in classical music), but the first two notes are rushed, if you will: sixteenth+sixteenth+eighth. Best to listen to a good traditional player do it (and I would not recommend L.E. McCullough).
You can, of course, put a note-triplet into most positions where you might use a
long roll, if you’d like. I use an A 3(AGA) in some places, but they do have a tendency
to turn into rolls at a certain speed.double or triple tonguing would work too, and you could certainly double-cut, or
cran.
I am not so sure about double or triple tonguing here (triple tonguing perhaps if it’s the high d, B d 3(.d.d.d …, but I don’t recall hearing that done).
To my mind it has a lot to do with the placement of the figure in the phrase, and I might do something different at the end of the phrase (like BDED), that I would at the beginning.
cran
I do the thing of creating a roll on D by playing all fingers down, then cut, then cut with a L1 vent, so you get the upper and lower. I could swear I read either on Steve’s site or Larsen that it was either Willie or Miko who did that. It seemed like it would be impossible to do when i was just learning, but its no big deal.
I am still experimenting with which fingers to do it with because there is a certain feel within your fingers that translates to rhythmic crispness. Most recently, I tried cutting with R1 then tap with both L1 and L2 . . .. Least workable was the Larsen recommended cut of the finger just above (R2). I am thinking long-term, of what will work in any situation. Once I settle it, I practice it in. I am still at that stage.
I am just not that fond of second octave D crans but I love the low D.
Another interesting issue is whether to replace the vent finger right after. You can leave it open but then the issue is: what fingering comes next, depending on the tune.
And, I have a feeling that this might not work with every whistle you own.
Hi, Berti, this is L.E. McCullough offering some thoughts re: ornamenting your BDDD figure for “Flagstone of Memories” – a great tune:
Be courageous – learn to play the best you can. Don’t be afraid to master what seems like a slightly more complicated way. Don’t let anyone infect you with their fear, mediocrity or lack of curiosity. It’s your music, make it sound the way you hear it and want it to sound. If it’s in your mind, you can get it in your fingers. Once you learn the correct way to do the ornament so it fits the tune, it’s always easier than futzing with a clumsy work-around that’s never quite right.
Make the ornament fit the melody and the rhythmic duration. Don’t worry about micro-measuring each note; the entire ornament happens in a second or less. Just make sure the ornament fits the 3 eighth-note D-D-D time frame in the proper beat of the melody, and the internal rhythm of the notes will sort themselves out.
These days, I’m playing the figure you mention like this:
xoo ooo
xxx xxx
xxx xxo
xxo xxo
xxx xxo
xxx oxo
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
Try it, and if it feels right for you, use it. An ornament like this, I spend several hours over several days just playing it until it becomes automatic and you can use it in a live tune without thinking about each part of the ornament. It just comes out of you and into the tune, and it’s music.
I assume this figure you’re referring to is B descending to the bottom D, which appears in the 2nd, 3rd and 6th measures of the first part of the tune. You could also do a similar ornament on the BDDD passage that starts measure 7 but goes up a third to the 2nd octave D. When I play this D with the top hole open, my fingering is:
xoo ooo
oxx xxx
oxx xxo
oxo xxo
oxx xxo
oxx oxo
oxx xxo
oxx xxx
You have to play this ornament quickly to keep the airflow even and the sound from breaking up (because of the open top hole). Or you could play it the same fingering as the bottom D, depending on your whistle and how cleanly you want to hear the ornament. The top hole closed has more – and here we’ll use an objective scientific term – “fuzz”.
Good luck, and keep me posted. Write if you have questions. Hope to play this tune with you some day!
Vaarwel,
L.E. McCullough
(This is not a reply to L.E.'s post (because I haven 't read it yet except to know that it exists) so if it contradicts then I apologize)
I was taught that crans are not always appropriate, that I really shouldn’t just drop in a cran whenever it seems like one might fit. I mean, my teacher wouldn’t slap my hand with a Feadog or anything, but he’d stop and he’d say, “I probably wouldn’t have put a cran in there but if you like it then go ahead,’ which I interpret to mean, 'do that around real whistle players and see where it gets you.”