When to take it to a sesh?

Irish Flute
21

"You can spend your entire life eating Big Macs and be blissfully unaware that there’s anything better to eat in the world. "

OTOH: If it is going to take 4 or 5 years to get to the caviar, maybe it would be good to have a few Big Macs along the way. You can still go home from the session and practice and work on the things that you want to to perfect in your playing. Over the years, I have seen many of my friends start coming to the sessions as beginning musicians and over the years become first class musicians.

Maybe I am way out of line here, and I will always strive to be a better musician, but this is folk music. It is meant for dancers to dance to, and for most of us as a means of socializing. Perfection is not necessary for either. While I will always admire my friends that play well, I still enjoy playing with my friends that don’t (within reason).

Jeff

22

I wasn’t aware that anyone was talking about perfection. What is perfection anyway, as regards Irish music? No matter; I just think you do yourself and the music a disservice when you put the cart before the horse, i.e., place more value on your own immediate participation than on learning what the music is about. All things in good time - do the work first.

Rob

23

That’s not out of line, but isn’t it also true that a thing worth doing is worth doing well? Or at least as best you can?

There’s nothing wrong with going to sessions as a beginner if you’re working on your playing outside of the session and learning outside of the session. What I object to is rushing to learn tunes simply in order to be able to play them at sessions and be part of the gang, and then never getting beyond that mentality. Unless the session is of a high level, this approach is almost guaranteed to lead to mediocrity, because most sessions are homogenizing factories. And the shortcuts you take to get yourself up to speed quickly are going to hold you back later on.

Mediocrity is okay, nobody’s arguing for perfection, but I think that people whose goal is simply to be good enough to play in a session and nothing more are missing out on so much. It’s like they’re locked in a little tiny room with an enormous world of possibilities waiting outside the door.

That’s it from me for today…I’m actually going out to a session tonight :slight_smile:

24

“That’s not out of line, but isn’t it also true that a thing worth doing is worth doing well? Or at least as best you can?”

ABSOLUTELY! That is why I say you can go home and work on the things you want to get better at. I just think it is ok to go the session and play a bit with your friends while you are learning.

I think we are probably on the same wavelength just going at it from a different angle.

Have fun at your session. I am getting ready to go to a 3 day camp out session this weekend. That is a lot of music, especially if we try to not repeat tunes. LOL I am bringing my flute if only to play by myself in my tent.

Jeff

25

“This sounds like a recipe for mulchy music to me.”

Possibly Rob. I guess you mean mediocre. Sometimes when you have a day job and kids and the rest of life that’s the best us working stiffs can do. However, I agree that you do have to put in the time. There’s no way around it. I put in my share of practice. I’m not an advocate of mulchy by any means.

I think we’re all pretty much on the same page here.

26

Having seen and heard him, I can vouch that Rob has put in the time and can play at a very high level. He’s an outstanding flutist, fiddler and guitarist, and probably plays lots of instruments I don’t know about ---- top-drawer in my book, and I hear what he’s saying.

That said, one could sit for years in sessions, yearning to become a part of the music. I say if the session is friendly, and you’re not dragging things down, don’t be afraid to toot along in the back row. That’s how you learn. Just be careful and sensitive, and know when to put a cork in it. Good players welcome earnest learners.

27

I think you’re all kinda missing the point! I’d read it that benhall has been playing fiddle for years, knows loads of tunes and session players, etiquette etc etc. So the way I’d be approaching it is - find a few tunes you know that are handy on the flute and go together. Play along on fiddle as usual - then whip out the old flute at some stage and say ‘Lads - here’s a wee set I have on flute’. Back to the fiddle and so on. Mind you, the fiddle is such a wonderful instrument - what brings you to play flute as well in the first place? Variety maybe?

28

See? That’s pretty much what my whistle player friend said to me some years back when I was learning whistle.

Basically, I’ve very gradually, over the years, learned to love the sound of wooden flute playing Irish tunes in a session. Now … I just love it. :heart:

So … I want to be able to do it myself. Interestingly, even at this early stage, I think it’s actually helping my fiddle playing as well.

29

Just don’t go to Brad’s session. But you can go to my sessions. Just be sensitive and don’t play too loudly or too out-of-tunely. An open session isn’t a gig. A private session is in between-- it’s a gig with no mics, no set-list and no special effort made to entertain. It can be exclusive. You’ll find out pretty quickly what sort of session it is and whether your presence is welcome. But you should at least go a few times and see how you fare.

(BTW: Brad is a very forgiving, inclusive sort of person who has very few elitist tendencies.)

30

Thanks Julia. I’m getting so frustrated, just playing the same bloody thing over and over in the house! I think I’ll to your session and play it there!

:wink:

31

As a suggestion, I find a warm-up to be invaluable, but a warm-up isn’t about music, rather, it’s more a matter of getting an instrument to do what you want it to do. A warm-up could be a fancy affair, covering all of the usual topics, tone, scales, articulation, etc., and could be followed by any passages which might be giving you some difficulty, or, a warm-up could be something as simple as just a few long tones, maybe followed by a few arpeggios, just to check your tuning. Again, however, it’s not about music.

That’s how I start my musical day.

32

Cork,

With all the advice you give around here, I would really like to hear some of your playing, either wood or silver. Do you have anything available online?

Jason

33

Basically, Jason, this is a social place, where people of similar interests could congregate. So, I’ve found a small niche here to hang out in, and I try to be helpful if I can. Otherwise, I actually prefer for there to be some doubt about whatever flute playing advise I might have, so that anybody reading it might need to evaluate it for themselves.

On this thread in particular, an experienced fiddle player has now taken up the flute, and he’s wondering why the flute isn’t standing up and doing tricks. So, to me it’s obvious that he doesn’t need music lessons, but that maybe he could do well to first “connect” to his new instrument, and a daily warm-up is a great way to do just that.

That’s what I do.

34

I don’t want to be a meanie, but cork’s advice is suspect. Cork has admitted to having never attended a session. Yet the OP here is specifically asking about sessions. On several occasions cork has admitted to having not played the wooden flute for very long. But he is very free with such misguided advice as this: Simply, the upper hand thumb is not used to hold the flute, at all, not on any transverse flute.

…the upper thumb is not used to hold the flute? Excuse me… Not at all? I just don’t get this. Did I misunderstand something? Is every traditional player I’ve ever known holding the flute improperly?

Here is another bit of advice that I don’t understand: …try resting the flute on the base of your upper hand index finger, just above the knuckle. Respectfully cork, absent glue, or holding my hand under the flute, I don’t see how this can be done. Perhaps a picture would help? Or a clip on youtube where we can see this position? Or would cork refuse to do this too, because, as with posting a clip, he “…actually prefer[s] for there to be some doubt about whatever flute playing advise I might have…” Cork, why would you prefer that somebody doubt your advice? Why give advice to a beginner if you think the advice is doubtful? It sounds to me as if you are hedging your bet so you won’t be held accountable for your misguided efforts to help a beginner.

I understand that this might be an important social venue for cork, as it is for many people. And I appreciate that cork’s intent is well-meaning. But this is also a “how-to” venue for many people. For some it is more than just a place to spend some idle time. Somebody with some experience can participate here and not present himself to beginners as an accomplished expert. It would be preferable if cork said “I don’t use my thumb to hold the flute,” rather than the definitive statement, “…the upper thumb is not used to hold the flute.” When beginning players come here looking for advice, cork’s “help” could in some instances not only impede their progress, but could put them off the flute forever. My counter-advice is that anybody should be very wary of any suggestion made by cork. And my advice to cork would be to back off on the need to present oneself as an expert, at least until you have shown that you are in fact an expert.

I like what you said about warming up. But in a session that isn’t always possible. That’s why many sessions start with slow jigs or hornpipes before accelerating into reels. Getting oneself set to play is very important. I appreciate your saying, “That’s what I do.” I thought that was very modest of you. But should also have mentioned your total lack of session experience - unless that has changed in recent years.

To the erstwhile Matt Molloys who have been playing for less than a couple of years: can you imagine taking advice on your golf game from somebody on the internet whose only claim to expertize is validated by what he says in a chat group? My own advice here (and not to be doubted!) would be to find a good teacher, or at least a good player whom you can observe, watch clips of good fluters on youtube, don’t squeeze the flute in a death-grip, and try to find a comfortable position – one that will reduce tension. Oh yes: and play slowly.

35

Cork,

With your pedantic and condescending tone, I find you, in this social place, personally unbearable. You speak with all the arrogance of a star player talking to students in a master class, though you have yet to prove in any way that you are anything of the sort. I might be able to stomach your online persona if I knew you were a top flute player. The fact that you won’t establish your credentials by posting clips of your playing is irresponsible on the one hand and cowardly on the other. In other words, put up or shut up. That is, I’m not interested in “reading” any other response from you–I only want to “hear” a response.

36

Akiba - please check PM’s.

37

Well, don’t mind me, chaps. I was just soaking up all of the advice from everyone, just about all of it helpful, I thought …

38

Under review.

39

This general issue comes up occasionally, and there’s never a resolution.

There’s no audition for posting on the Chiffboard, and no one can or will be forced to provide clips. That’s just a fact.

Every musician knows that the best players are not always the best teachers or communicators, and vice versa. So there’s some wiggle room between the two.

On the other hand, I think it’s natural for members who regularly take on the mentoring role of giving performance advice to offer examples of their own performance, especially when asked. It’s a benefit to newbies, a courtesy to fellow players, and a way of giving something back to Dale and the board for providing the forum.

On the internet, no one knows if you’re a dog. But no one knows if you’re Matt Molloy, either. A clip gives context to one’s comments, and it demonstrates good faith that you can walk the walk. Besides, I’ve never known a teacher or mentor who, in person, wasn’t happy to pick up an instrument and show how it’s done. Here in cyberspace, clips are the next best thing.

But again, it has to be a voluntary individual decision. And other Chiffers are free to take the presence or absence of clips into account in evaluating the trustworthiness of advice. I don’t know how else this could work without a more elaborate system.

Akiba, I understand where you’re coming from. But “put up or shut up” is not an acceptable directive here on the Chiffboard. Dale has made that pretty clear before. Sorry.

As for the OP, Ben is an experienced musician, and seems to be sorting things out among the replies. :wink:

Thanks and carry on …

40

Just to chime in on this. The more forthcoming one is with advice, and the more authoritative in tone one is when offering advice, the more likely others will want some evidence of credentials. It’s perfectly understandable. So, I do think some modesty is called for in offering advice. I don’t direct this to any individual, truly.

However, there’s just no way I’m going to either require someone to post clips as a condition of offering advice, nor am I going to permit members to harass each other on this. It’s perfectly ok to invite someone to post clips, but that needs to be the end of it. You can’t be dissing people on the board for declining to post clips.

Now, if someone gives advice you think is ill-advised, the way to deal with that is to post a respectfully-worded dissent and offer your own competing advice.

Thanks.