I have two nearly identical low whistles by the same maker. They differ, I believe, only marginally with respect to the height of the windway and therefore backpressure. But one has more chiff, if chiff is the metallic noise that accompanies playing a note. My wife describes that whistle as having a richer, “deeper” tone but not as smooth by which I believe she must be referring to the chiff. So how is chiff created or avoided in the making of a whistle? I know Mack Hoover says he can add more or less chiff to his whistles depending on taste.
Chiff in your whistle and chiff in regards to organ pipes has the the same definition though the structure/mechanics of the instruments differ ![]()
CHIFF: Part of the attack, or very first instant of speech, of a flue pipe. It is a clicking, consonant-like sound that serves to mark the entrance of each note in a moving passage. Chiff can be adjusted in voicing from being a very prominent part of the pipe’s speech to being completely inaudible. It is often called articulation, and when not excessive it increases the clarity of polyphonic music.
Source: http://organ.wicks.com/display_page?p=290
For me to explain what chiff is? that would be the same as when you/me immediately identify/realise the sound of a whistle. The tonal information supplied to your ears (including chiff in the attack) also helps you identify the sound of an Organ. That being correct? I would assume chiff relates to timbre. In defining this I realise that chiff has little to do with the breathiness characteristic of a whistle as that is on-going in the duration of a note and chiff by definition occurs during the initiation/attack of a note. That said how this chiff aspect can be controlled by the whistle maker is an interesting question.
I have no opinion on Jleo’s answer below. It may be an accurate answer to your exact question. There is some disagreement on whether it is merely the initial “first instant” as described or more than that.
If your intention was to inquire as to the presence of chiff (as described in JLeo’s response) when playing, it can be controlled to a large extent by the player. It is more difficult to produce chiff in a whistle that was designed to be very pure sounding but chiff can be introduced to some extent, or reduced to a great extent, by simply varying your attack of the note. If you tongue hard, then push hard at the very start, this will enhance that effect. If you breath into the note more gently or use the infamous “glottal stop” to start a note, the effect will be diminished.
ecohawk
It comes up again! I’m guessing that
if chiff is the metallic noise that accompanies playing a note
It is not. as jleo fipple quotes from http://organ.wicks.com/display_page?p=290:
CHIFF:> Part of the attack, or very first instant of speech, of a flue pipe.
Chiff occurs at the start of a note:
- as the air stream is started to a pipe to sound a note.
- on the whistle as a note is started with the breath, how the breath is started whether the tongue and/or glottis is involved complicates the process
I believe we can also refer to momentary sound that occurs as we change notes on the whistle without interrupting the air flow as chiff and in fact I believe many people are referring to this when they say a whistle is ‘chiffy’. Of course I don’t speak for these many people so YMMV.
As to timbre - this term is inclusive of all the factors that make up the sound of an instrument apart from pitch and loudness. Chiff is one the factors of timbre.
As wikipedia quotes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre:
Timbre has been called, “…the psychoacoustician’s multidimensional waste-basket category for everything that cannot be labeled pitch or loudness.” (McAdams and Bregman 1979, 34; cf. Dixon Ward 1965, 55 and Tobias 1970, 409).
and
Many commentators have attempted to decompose timbre into component attributes. For example, J. F. Schouten (1968, 42) describes the, “…elusive attributes of timbre,” as “…determined by at least five major acoustic parameters,” which Robert Erickson (1975) finds, “…scaled to the concerns of much contemporary music”:
- The range between tonal and noiselike character
The spectral envelope
The time envelope in terms of rise, duration, and decay (ADSR—attack, decay, sustain, release)
The changes both of spectral envelope (formant-glide) and fundamental frequency (micro-intonation)
The prefix, or onset of a sound, quite dissimilar to the ensuing lasting vibration
Edit: ecohawk posted while I was composing my post - this is a clarification of my thoughts.
The term chiff in the context of pipe organs seems to be reasonably well defined and IMHO we who co-opt the term for other instruments (which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do - especially given the similarity of an organ pipe and a whistle) do not need to expand the meaning of the word and make its meaning less clear.
just my 2 cents
Of course none of this answers the OP’s question!
However until we know what the original question really means it is perhaps unanswerable -
Are we asking about chiff?
Or perhaps “the metallic noise that accompanies playing a note” (which in my book is not chiff since it accompanies the note)
Of course you (the OP) have the answer in your hand - or perhaps I should say you have one answer in your hand.
Be aware that ‘marginal’ physical differences can majorly affect the characteristics of a whistle… or not.
The windway height may be the explanation or it could be a 0.1mm somewhere else that would be very difficult to measure or see.
Sorry this is a rushed reply. Thanks for all the answers. I’ll read what you’ve said more thoroughly tomorrow. But I’m not sure I’m hearing what I’m after.
It is more difficult to produce chiff in a whistle that was designed to be very pure sounding
That’s what I’m mainly interested in, the design of the whistle. How does one make a whistle pure-sounding or chiffy? But in addition if the metallic sound that starts a note is not chiff, what is it and can I prevent it or enhance it? I actually got much the same results from playing two other makes of whistles that had low backpressure.
Mike, I agree with all the posters comments about “chiff”, which can be an element of the sound when a note starts, but is not present while a note is held. Your description of “metallic noise” while a note is played is something different than “chiff” at note attack. What you describe seems to be part of the timbre. But what exactly is “metallic noise”? A sound demo of a note with this noise and without would be good, and better than a hundred words. without hearing it we all will be just guessing.
I could guess that it means a “harder” sound, with higher harmonics more emphasised, and probably some other high frequencies present. If it is too much, it may be described as “harsh”. But then I am only guessing, and you may mean something else.
As to whistle design in this respect: As was said: very small difference can have a huge impact on the timbre, the voicing. Smooth sound usually means smooth design features, smooth rounded edges etc. Hard edges will create additional turbulence, which is heard as additional “noise”. This could be “hiss” noise as well as other tonal colouring, “hardness” etc.
Apart from smooth or hard edges in window and tone holes the windway and window dimensions will play a huge role in what kind of timbre a whistle has.
Thanks Hans. You’ve cleared up something of an misunderstanding. My fault in the way I described it. I am talking about a metallic sound, a tinkle, an edge, that accompanies the initial attack of the note NOT as the note continues. Apologies. This then I assume would be classified as chiff. You have suggested that noise in the note can be put down to a lack of smoothness in the design and finish of the whistle. Does this then also apply to chiff, or is the presence/absence of chiff the result of other design features? That’s what I’m getting at. Note that I have heard this exact same chiff sound on another make of low whistle.
I’ve also wondered whether this noise on the attack of the note is due to poor coverage of holes but I would expect something far less subtle to result from that.
Thanks for clarifying this, Mike! Still like to hear a sample though…
Mike, do you observe the effect in all transitions between notes: you play note X and change, without stopping or tonguing, to note Y. Do you get that “metallic” attack sound? Or do you get it with specific transitions? Do you get it when you put fingers down in a transition, like from ‘B’ to ‘G’? Do you get it when you lift fingers up, like from ‘G’ to ‘B’? What happens when you slow down that finger movement, so fingers lift up or settle down on a hole in very slow motion? Does that make the “metallic” sound more noticeable, lasting longer?
I ask this because, when a hole, or several holes, are nearly closed, but not quite yet, or not fully open yet, you may get a buzzy sound. And you may get that as part of normal playing, opening and closing holes. In fact you may get that if you gently push a clear sounding note, but not so much as to overblow into the second octave, you may get a buzzy in-between the octaves state.
I was thinking that it might be the same thing, Hans.
Especially on my old goldies, or on an MK low F I will get this often if I play sloppily. That little sound like a fork quickly scraping into a pan while you are washing dishes klink. I am thinking that might be what Mike is describing, but maybe not.
Some whistles are more prone to it than others. I’ve never got the noise on the burke before, for instance. I think it happens when you lift your fingers off of or put them onto a hole, if there is a split second where the whole hole isn’t completely covered before the fingers make full contact with it. I could be wrong about that, though.
I’m curious to know if this is indeed what is being described here.
And there is always a split second when a hole is not quite covered. Not getting fingers down precisely (sloppily as you said) will make matters worse. You could blame yourself, but hole locations, hole size and hole finish can make it easier or harder, so you can also blame the whistle!
We’re just about to move house so its not convenient to try and record anything right now (and I wouldn’t know how to put it on a post anyway) but I’m wondering if this is maybe what you’re talking about. I would describe it as tinkle of metal on metal and my wife wondered if the noise and what she called a “lack of smoothness” compared to the old whistle, was down to me getting used to it. I guess though the whistles look almost identical, in the tuning of it, the holes may be slightly different. I’ve had it two days and I’m noticing that it isn’t happening as much but I’ll analyse it further and when I get chance, if necessary record what I’m hearing. Thanks for your thoughts.
In organ pipes with a window like a whistle, chiff can be left in or removed. In the Baroque era, chiff was normal and desired. In the Romantic era, chiff was reduced or removed by putting a series of nicks along the edge of the pipes blades. The nicks remove the chiff. Big difference in sound results. Organists refer to “nicked” and “un-nicked” pipes when talking about the difference.
Possibly my ‘metallic wheeze’?
Though that’s not just an attack thing but can also be continuing ‘harmonic’ colour sustained by the slightest under- or over-blowing.
The more I play it the more I’m convinced it was due to poor coverage of holes. The “problem” that I thought was chiff appears to have gone away though I will continue to watch for it and analyse it if it happens.
Conversely, a looser, more relaxed fingering can give you more chirp or emphasize it if you like (and many do).
I would know how to find that balance that would give me chirp and not just a squawked wrong note.
playing/practice