WALRUS IVORY--legal use in pipe making

Uilleann Pipes
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The Alsakan coast is cluttered with slash piles of walrus ivory from dead creatures. I have a friend who lives near the shore who says beach combers just toss them onto piles.

Apparently certain restrictions under the CITES treaty make it illegal to import the material in the UK, and US, but material found IN the US is legal to sell and trade except in a few states. I wonder if Alaska law prohibits collection or circulation of this material.

Does anyone know if walrus ivory is generally too small to use on uilleann pipes?

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:&&&&&0 Have any of you tried taugua nut for ivory replacement? It’s very hard and tight grained. It also turns very well once you get it roughed in. Waste material cuts off in long ribbons, leaving your lathe to look like it has been covered with shredded coconut(but not too much dust). If it seems too white when finished it can be dyed very easily. The only drawback seems to be the cavity inside the nut, which can be irregular in size and shape. Nice stuff to work with if you absolutely must have something organic.
Marc

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i agree with kevin,ivory doesnt make pipes sound or look any differant any.pipes, the chanter looks far better black and silver, or brass or whatever colour.and its more hasal for pipe makers to.its just that everybody is used to seeing them with bits of ivory on. just to think all animals killed to make an aray of instruments look better.

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NOW THAT IS COOL!! (thanks Marc) This site is everything you ever wanted to know about the nut.

http://www.middleworldtreasures.com/what.htm

Check out the figurines carved out of the taugua nut, or tagua (both spellings are correct). Apparently they only grow 1-2" in size…probabaly only useful for the smaller parts on the pipes?

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You can get bags of tagua nuts from a store called Woodcraft, http://www.woodcraft.com - search for “tagua”. Or if there is a store in your area you can go pick out a bag.

“Sizes vary between 1-1/2” to 2" dia. with 6 nuts per bag" for $8.

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you can get mammoth ivory can’t you?

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http://www.osofamoso.com

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John yes you can.

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That was essentially what the web site above said.

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Yes.

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Thankyou Peter.osofamosa to you too!!

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Sounds like “vegetable ivory” (tagua nuts) can be found as large as a tennis ball or a medium/large avocado shape, but hollow in the core, about the size of a small avocado seed. And so, probably “iffy” for pipes unless luck would put the hollow area in just the right place (for the larger parts).

http://www.oneworldprojects.com/products/tag_raw.shtml (pics of harvest and X-sections)

Another informative site:

http://www.cuillinn.com/ivory.html

Includes price for ivory or mammoth upgrade on pipes, legal issues, walrus ivory, etc. Here’s a few quotes…

“Yes it is a touchy subject, politically, ethically, and environmentally; and yes, it is available through legal sources, with full documentation as to origin and date of 'harvesting.”

“Legal elephant ivory is terribly expensive, but, if you have a set of pipes with damaged ivory mounts that need replacement, we can do it.”

“A full set of projecting mounts, buttons, chanter ball, drone bushes, and mouthpiece will run about $3,000 to ‘ivory up’ a half-silver set. A complete set of mounts, ferrules, and ringcaps will run about $5000 - plus the cost of the pipes themselves.”

“An alternative material relatively new to bagpipes is MASTODON, or MAMMOTH IVORY, which is a by-product of mining in Russia (vhat are they minink??? Who knew? I mean nu?), and is also found in Alaska. Less expensive than elephant ivory, it is still pricey, but completely LEGAL for export or import into the US, as it is a ‘fossil’ and not an endangered species (I’ll say!). Mastodon ivory is beautiful, and slightly darker than elephant ivory, with an ecru or dark cream colour rather than the near-white of new elephant ivory. It has the same appearance when turned through the ‘eye,’ or center of the tusk, with the distinctive interlacing or ‘lamellae’ characteristic to pachyderm tusks. I’ve worked this material myself, and it is lovely to turn - and expensive! It’s painful to see all the waste material flying off the turning gouge when you work it, but that’s the nature of the business!”

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Just to make a note on prices. I’ve priced pre-CITES and mammoth ivory for making sets. If you go with leftover pieces from such things as gun grip manufacture you can bring the cost of materials down to easily under US$100 for a full set. You have to be lucky, or skilled at negotiating for a few thicker/larger pieces, but it’s easily possible.

Using the Ivory creeps me out to an extent, though. In all honesty when you think about it, though, if you’re working in a foreign hardwood these days, it’s likely to be an endangered wood. Granted a blackwood tree isn’t quite the same as a majestic, possibly ancient Elephant, but it’s a matter of degrees.

When I begin producing sets for sale, I have to admit I will consider using bone, horn or ivory mounts if requested. However I will strongly advise against it for ethical reasons as well as transportation issues.

The Tagua nuts work well. Depending on the size you can get your hands upon. They have been used for some time for making ‘fake’ or tourist Netsuke. They’re easy to turn and look real if you stain them properly.

Dionys

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“Sea Ivory” has been used on pipes for centuries, and I can’t imagine a better use for ‘beach find’ tusks than to put them to this use.

Now I want to spend some time beachcombing the north coast :party:

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Have seen a set being made using walrus and other teeth and if memory serves me correctly it was not the easiest of materials to work with

John

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Marine mammals and their products are protected in most places, including the USA - often under even stricter terms than elephant ivory. Marine ivory is thus a controlled substance.

For instance in the US, it is expressly not legal for “any person to transport, purchase, sell, or export any marine mammal or marine mammal product” for anything other than “public display, scientific research, or enhancing the survival of the species or stock…” [Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972, 16 USC 1372, section 102.3.B] The law applies to items composed “in part” of marine mammal products.

Objects containing marine mammal products imported before 1972 are exempt from prosecution under import prohibitions, so old Rowsome walrus mounts imported before then appear not to be a problem unless you wish to travel across an international border - you can’t be prosecuted for just owning them. However the blanket prohibitions against export, transportation, purchase, and sale are not listed in the exemption.

There are of course unscrupulous people who will offer to sell “legal” walrus ivory, for instance claiming that they can do so because of a Native American exemption of some sort, and implying that you can then do whatever you like with it. Remember, they have a financial incentive for convincing you of this…

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Marine ivory is thus a > controlled substance

Does this mean you can get a high from the shavings whilst turning it :laughing:

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Dude, don’t do it! it’s a nasty buzz :frowning: